LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[jcza]

hmmm, not sure I agree. From a personal n=1, non scientific, non double blinded, not randomised anything test ....

 

In March of this year I started going to gym again. It's a boot camp style high intensity hour twice a week with a personal trainer who clearly hates me

I can find no difference in performance for any of the following: Performance based on feeling and HR

1. have eaten breakfast that day (gym sessions always at lunch)

2. last meal was supper the night before

3. last meal was lunch the day before.

 

Always only had water in the time between meals. Meal composition was strictly lchf with about 60g Carb daily, no alcohol, carb from green sources and dairy only.

What I did notice was blood ketone levels were always higher after fasted exercise but about the same before the exercise. I don't understand why this happens and could not find anything on the web about it.

BG levels not affected.

 

So, like I said, it's just a simple n=1 test that proves bugger-all except that the trainer still hates me

 

As an aside, one of the benefits of lchf for me is a total lack of reliance on food. I've stopped structuring my day around meals - just eat when I'm hungry, exercise or not.

 

I found the same Dale provided my training (or racing) does not exceed 2 hours or intensitiy is low. Once I go over 2 hours with high intensity its tickets without carbs. At low intensity I can easily exceed 2 hours on water only.

[htone]

I'm sure that training at low intensity is no carb but racing is with carb. Maybe the doc himself can comment?

 

I just need to correct the statement - he did not say train WITHOUT carbs, he says start your training in a fasting state, then add carbs for an increased training adaptation.

 

He was unequivocal that one should use carbs to race as fat actually slows you down (if not fat adapted) due to the lag in the metabolic process and the fact that you feel more tired because of that.

 

He also showed a nice graph of what happens if you take carbs too close to the start of the race - he cited about an hour to two before the race being the optimal time for carb ingestion as that results in a stable BG level, insulin nice and low and adrenals firing properly.

[htone]

I found the same Dale provided my training (or racing) does not exceed 2 hours or intensitiy is low. Once I go over 2 hours with high intensity its tickets without carbs. At low intensity I can easily exceed 2 hours on water only.

 

jcza, that is the "classic" timeframe for your body to burn up the available liver glycogen (you store about 100g and you burn it at a rate of about 60g/hour at threshold exercise). So... it could either mean that you are not properly fat adapted (which should buy you a few more minutes) or that you guys in the North just don't byt vas for long enough ...

 

I will now remove my tongue from my cheek...

[2wheelsgood]

If you're unable to eat then try Ensure

 

Would rather just have glucose... Ensure is not food and certainly not low GI.

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/002698_Ensure_food_marketing.html

Edited November 13, 2013 by 2wheelsgood

[jcza]

jcza, that is the "classic" timeframe for your body to burn up the available liver glycogen (you store about 100g and you burn it at a rate of about 60g/hour at threshold exercise). So... it could either mean that you are not properly fat adapted (which should buy you a few more minutes) or that you guys in the North just don't byt vas for long enough ...

 

I will now remove my tongue from my cheek...

 

EINA!

 

I tried and failed, for me there is no racing > 2 hours without replenishing the glycogen.

[Cois]

Hi Guys

Not going well with the diet. Was sick for the past 3 weeks. Flu, upset innards and broken bike.

So I was on a diet of cookies, buns, rice. Last night was the first time since the weekend that I dared to eat meat (liver) but not go well with my body,

Going to try again to eat something tonight. Or else I will hit the salad again.

I am so out of shape at the moment. Chest is not 100% yet either. Bike is almost fixed (tubeless did not go so well)

 

Will have to get my fiance on a LCHF diet or else I will die....

[davetapson]

 

Would rather just have glucose... Ensure is not food and certainly not low GI.

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/002698_Ensure_food_marketing.html

 

I've battled with some stomach bug I picked up from the kids. Eventually just thought sod it an went back to normal LCHF and all was fine.

[McD23]

My comments on training and racing on LCHF,

Have been doing it for 11 months, religiously, knowledgably and consistently.

Have cycled on and off for 23 years now, done every thing from old school train till you vomit, train heart rate zones and new school power with 'rest' is your most nb day - all on carb lifestyle.

For the record, for me 'power' was hands down winner in terms of time put in versus performance got out.

I have come to the realisation, after trying to train and race with no carb on ride that as long as it at low intensity, I can train fasted and train longer than 3 hours.

I tried water and energy bars only, which works in training, but come race's where I often am at avg 80 per cent and above with my max being 180bpm I would fade badly towards the end.

Up the intensity and I have not been able to last longer than 2h45

I did Sani, Imani, Ride to Nowhere like this, and was pap towards end of every day often giving up places.

Pioneer I started using 32gi ( diluted ) drink and their bar or hammer ( because they had the highest fat content ) , intensity was much lower on this race, but I was much stronger throughout stages with power to spare towards end.

Just did W2W race, same story, 32gi but not diluted and energy bar, grabbed baby potatoes at second or last water stop each day (discovered I love these and the kick I get from them ) Felt massive difference and was strong through out each stage putting my partner under big strain towards end each stage ( finished 45 overall ) .

For me it is clear , if I'm riding at intensity, I need carbs to supplement energy intake on bike.

Outside of the actual ride in the above scenarios, I maintain a LCHF lifestyle.

[Leon Besaans]

My comments on training and racing on LCHF,

Have been doing it for 11 months, religiously, knowledgably and consistently.

Have cycled on and off for 23 years now, done every thing from old school train till you vomit, train heart rate zones and new school power with 'rest' is your most nb day - all on carb lifestyle.

For the record, for me 'power' was hands down winner in terms of time put in versus performance got out.

I have come to the realisation, after trying to train and race with no carb on ride that as long as it at low intensity, I can train fasted and train longer than 3 hours.

I tried water and energy bars only, which works in training, but come race's where I often am at avg 80 per cent and above with my max being 180bpm I would fade badly towards the end.

Up the intensity and I have not been able to last longer than 2h45

I did Sani, Imani, Ride to Nowhere like this, and was pap towards end of every day often giving up places.

Pioneer I started using 32gi ( diluted ) drink and their bar or hammer ( because they had the highest fat content ) , intensity was much lower on this race, but I was much stronger throughout stages with power to spare towards end.

Just did W2W race, same story, 32gi but not diluted and energy bar, grabbed baby potatoes at second or last water stop each day (discovered I love these and the kick I get from them ) Felt massive difference and was strong through out each stage putting my partner under big strain towards end each stage ( finished 45 overall ) .

For me it is clear , if I'm riding at intensity, I need carbs to supplement energy intake on bike.

Outside of the actual ride in the above scenarios, I maintain a LCHF lifestyle.

 

I am very similiar, only diffs is I use UCAN instead of that other sugary cr@p, works a treat. Honestly, after Berg and Bush my motivation has not been the same to sit in the saddle for tedious ridiculous hours, this week I have not even been on bike once. Need to find my motivation again.

 

All the best

[Grondpad]

For me it is clear , if I'm riding at intensity, I need carbs to supplement energy intake on bike.

Outside of the actual ride in the above scenarios, I maintain a LCHF lifestyle.

 

For me, I do exactly the same (use 32GI) and I found that after a hard race the amount of carbs I take does not affect my ketone levels (I only use the strips so can tell you the exact number).

[Roux 1]

My comments on training and racing on LCHF,

Have been doing it for 11 months, religiously, knowledgably and consistently.

Have cycled on and off for 23 years now, done every thing from old school train till you vomit, train heart rate zones and new school power with 'rest' is your most nb day - all on carb lifestyle.

For the record, for me 'power' was hands down winner in terms of time put in versus performance got out.

I have come to the realisation, after trying to train and race with no carb on ride that as long as it at low intensity, I can train fasted and train longer than 3 hours.

I tried water and energy bars only, which works in training, but come race's where I often am at avg 80 per cent and above with my max being 180bpm I would fade badly towards the end.

Up the intensity and I have not been able to last longer than 2h45

I did Sani, Imani, Ride to Nowhere like this, and was pap towards end of every day often giving up places.

Pioneer I started using 32gi ( diluted ) drink and their bar or hammer ( because they had the highest fat content ) , intensity was much lower on this race, but I was much stronger throughout stages with power to spare towards end.

Just did W2W race, same story, 32gi but not diluted and energy bar, grabbed baby potatoes at second or last water stop each day (discovered I love these and the kick I get from them ) Felt massive difference and was strong through out each stage putting my partner under big strain towards end each stage ( finished 45 overall ) .

For me it is clear , if I'm riding at intensity, I need carbs to supplement energy intake on bike.

Outside of the actual ride in the above scenarios, I maintain a LCHF lifestyle.

 

I had similar experience. I agree with you.

[Roux 1]

Question:: What does a remark like:: "I can do 2 hours or 2h45 with no carbs, very little carbs in a race/high intensity session i.e. >85% of max HR', or "cannot last longer than..." mean. :rolleyes:

 

Is it a bonk, you must get of bike and push or is it:: you can still go, but not at the pace of group or pace you want to.. If it is the latter--

 

The % you lack must be made up with some sort of carb and correctly structured training program.

 

Please comment...

[jcza]

Question:: What does a remark like:: "I can do 2 hours or 2h45 with no carbs, very little carbs in a race/high intensity session i.e. >85% of max HR', or "cannot last longer than..." mean. :rolleyes:

 

Is it a bonk, you must get of bike and push or is it:: you can still go, but not at the pace of group or pace you want to.. If it is the latter--

 

The % you lack must be made up with some sort of carb and correctly structured training program.

 

Please comment...

 

For me its the dreaded bonk, either get off bike and recover by sucking a gu & crying a little or try and continue at a snails pace

[Cois]

I've battled with some stomach bug I picked up from the kids. Eventually just thought sod it an went back to normal LCHF and all was fine.

I can't keep anything in me except yoghurt and salads. Any meat or fatty stuff runs trough me.

[davetapson]

My observations:

 

I don't seem to bonk. Just can't maintain as high an intensity that I would choose.

 

So, for me, that only leaves "The % you lack must be made up with some sort of carb and correctly structured training program"

 

For clarity, lets assume the training is fine - that leaves the "must be made up with some sort of carb".

 

1. That is the soultion that jcza, (I think you as well) and a couple of others use (including me.)

2. There is some evidence that if you train / race appropriately, that the liver can produce sufficient glucose to cover this. HTOne may be there, but I've not quite made it. Tried it at Sani, but was a bit touch and go, so reverted to option 1.

 

Will probably stick with option 1 for the next while - it is working for me.

 

Edit: removing generalisations.

Edited November 14, 2013 by davetapson

[McD23]

Question:: What does a remark like:: "I can do 2 hours or 2h45 with no carbs, very little carbs in a race/high intensity session i.e. >85% of max HR', or "cannot last longer than..." mean. :rolleyes:

 

Is it a bonk, you must get of bike and push or is it:: you can still go, but not at the pace of group or pace you want to.. If it is the latter--

 

The % you lack must be made up with some sort of carb and correctly structured training program.

 

Please comment...

Hi Roux1,

Question:: What does a remark like:: "I can do 2 hours or 2h45 with no carbs, very little carbs but in a race/high intensity session i.e. >85% of max HR', or "cannot last longer than..." means 'kannie meer Corporal ! ' excuse spelling ! lol. I can get to finish no problem, but cruising with light gears and no power for inclines.