Calling on you gamers

[popcorn_skollie]

https://youtu.be/raNWOkG54VQ

 

Check the size of this thing. I think it takes up 4 slots!

[Jase619]

Team Green's new GPU MSRP vs local retail pricing

 

RTX 3070 - $500 (R8,000)

 

 

 

RTX 3080 - $700 (R11,000)

 

 

RTX 3090 - $1500 (R24,000)

 

 

Hmmm, those MSRPs aren't really a true reflection of what a landed card would cost. We definitely get screwed, but this is a bit exaggerated.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Hmmm, those MSRPs aren't really a true reflection of what a landed card would cost. We definitely get screwed, but this is a bit exaggerated.

Yeah, at the moment it's a pure thumbsuck. BUT. Our local distro really really takes the mickey. 

[bmw1za]

Some of us are not even on a 2080 yet lol

[popcorn_skollie]

Hmmm, those MSRPs aren't really a true reflection of what a landed card would cost. We definitely get screwed, but this is a bit exaggerated.

 

The distributor prices I've seen on partner cards for the 3080 are around R17k including vat. And from what I've heard the backlog on pre-orders is ridiculous. Either way you slice it. I've never seen a price disparity this huge between msrp and local.

 

Look to be fair you're always going to pay a premium for any Strix, Aorus and the like over founders. And we will have to wait and see 3rd party benches to warrant whether those performance gains are worth spending on. Prices 'should' also even out once shelves are stocked. But at these prices I doubt many retailers will risk having that much cash tied up in their inventory. It feels like these early prices are indicitive of demand.

Edited September 21, 2020 by popcorn_skollie

[popcorn_skollie]

Some of us are not even on a 2080 yet lol

 

At this point the prospect of getting a previous gen card off the shelf doesn't seem like a bad idea.

A 2080ti is still a beast. Its a waiting game now. Navi will drop end of next month. The 3060 and so forth might seem like a worthy option as well.

[bmw1za]

So the supposed decent entry level card is a 1650 (super) , The 1080FE kicks the crap out of it and yet by current standards is considered out of date ... I'm Not Upgrading (stuff That) Ray tracing just has to be patient (lol)

[popcorn_skollie]

So the supposed decent entry level card is a 1650 (super) , The 1080FE kicks the crap out of it and yet by current standards is considered out of date ... I'm Not Upgrading (stuff That) Ray tracing just has to be patient (lol)

 

Some of the 10 series cards are able to ray trace despite a lack of rt cores due to some software wizardry with driver updates. They do come at a questionable performance drop that make them seem moot. But could make games like minecraft at 1080p worth the trouble. 

 

https://www.pcmag.com/news/nvidias-ray-tracing-for-gtx-10-series-cards-will-drag-down-fps

[dev null]

The ASUS TUF Gaming 3080 seems to be the best of the 3080 cards at the moment. But local dealers are screwing us royaly. So I will wait and I am quite happy with my 1080Ti at the moment.

 

I would not hold my breath for the AMD Big Navi offerings. AMD always disappoint in the end with their GPU offerings. That is if they are able to even deliver dependable driver software, which they sadly have never been able to pull off with new GPUs.

[popcorn_skollie]

The ASUS TUF Gaming 3080 seems to be the best of the 3080 cards at the moment. But local dealers are screwing us royaly. So I will wait and I am quite happy with my 1080Ti at the moment.

 

I would not hold my breath for the AMD Big Navi offerings. AMD always disappoint in the end with their GPU offerings. That is if they are able to even deliver dependable driver software, which they sadly have never been able to pull off with new GPUs.

 

Its such a shame they still have this reputation. These days its probably a result of the memes more than anything else. Personally I've had driver issues from both sides over the years. But the days of driver issues in general are long forgotten. Right now I have machines with cards from both. The funny thing is I struggled with Nvidia's turing drivers because of an outdated windows build. Thats was maybe 2 years back? Easily overcome with updates but Radeon never seemed to mind that at all. I also prefer the driver interface over Nvidias. Stats and OC options are easier to navigate and understand. And the Relive stuff makes streaming easy. Nvidia doesn't really lack anything. But the layout is certainly less intuitive. As for reliability I can't complain on either end. I can't remember the last time a game crashed with any card I have now. 

 

I doubt AMD will drop a card that can compete with Nvidia's top tier offerings. But I don't believe its a case of them unable to do so. I think they're perfectly capable of competing for the top spot. But its not a viable marketing strategy. Not when most enthusiasts are in the mid range. Its also where the value prospect of performance to dollar makes the most sense from a consumer perspective. They're a business. Their incentive is market share. They achieved this with Ryzen. Offer better value for money in the mid range. Make a product which is 90% as good as Intel's offering at half the price. 

 

Nvidia is clearly mindful of this if their latest offerings is anything to go by. I mean lets be clear. They quite literally offered a new line of gpus where the entry level card is more powerful than last generations flagship at half the price. We haven't seen such a drastic jump in performance to price between generations since what. 10 years ago? They knew that 2080ti owners would be fuming but its a risk they took because they anticipate an AMD response that would threaten market share. To add to that for them to msrp the 3090 at double the price of the 3080 means they're not looking to compete in that space. Just maintain the crown. For those who care about raw performance irrespective of price. 

 

Here's my prediction. AMD will slide in with 2 or 3 cards at launch. No card to compete with Nvidia's top tier 3090. Maybe? But probably not. The flagship will perform just shy of the 3080 but at a much better price and probably more ram. It might even compete head to head in some titles especially with devs using radeon for its optimization process. And this space has and continues to grow significantly. The second card will perform somewhere halfway between the 3070 and 3080. At a price that's slightly less than halfway between the 3070 and the 3080 msrps. Then maybe a 3rd card that's shy of the 3070 performance. But at a very good price. This is where they aim to sell the most cards. Then over the next 2 years both sides will pepper the market with cards at almost every $50 price increment and partners pcb's will follow suite.

 

If AMD really is out for the crown they will have to fork so much money into rnd that the return on investment just wont make business sense. Not right now anyways. But if they continue on their current trajectory. Mark my words. In a few short years AMD will do to Nvidia what they've done to Intel. Its the long game they're playing. And Nvidia knows it. Ask yourself why Nvidia just bought ARM. They're taking AMD's threat seriously. Intel didn't see em coming. They got comfortable making the same crap year after year with small increments in performance at bigger increments in cost because they could. They got away with it because they weren't challenged. Now they're behind in rnd because they threw more money into exploiting their existing product stack for higher margins. 

 

Think of it this way. AMD is fighting a war on two fronts. They have been for a long time. Where as Intel and Nvidia have the same common adversary. For AMD to present such a great threat to Intel in such a short space of time says heaps about what they're truly capable of as a tech company. And they're pretty hot on Nvidia's heels too. These achievements speak volumes especially considering that they have far less at their disposal when compared to both Intel and Nvidia's resources respectively.  

 

 

Global GPU market share ending 2nd quarter 2020. I think its fair to say that Nvidia got a nice bump with its launch. But lets wait for Navi and see what happens

Edited September 21, 2020 by popcorn_skollie

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Its such a shame they still have this reputation. These days its probably a result of the memes more than anything else. Personally I've had driver issues from both sides over the years. But the days of driver issues in general are long forgotten. Right now I have machines with cards from both. The funny thing is I struggled with Nvidia's turing drivers because of an outdated windows build. Thats was maybe 2 years back? Easily overcome with updates but Radeon never seemed to mind that at all. I also prefer the driver interface over Nvidias. Stats and OC options are easier to navigate and understand. And the Relive stuff makes streaming easy. Nvidia doesn't really lack anything. But the layout is certainly less intuitive. As for reliability I can't complain on either end. I can't remember the last time a game crashed with any card I have now. 

 

I doubt AMD will drop a card that can compete with Nvidia's top tier offerings. But I don't believe its a case of them unable to do so. I think they're perfectly capable of competing for the top spot. But its not a viable marketing strategy. Not when most enthusiasts are in the mid range. Its also where the value prospect of performance to dollar makes the most sense from a consumer perspective. They're a business. Their incentive is market share. They achieved this with Ryzen. Offer better value for money in the mid range. Make a product which is 90% as good as Intel's offering at half the price. 

 

Nvidia is clearly mindful of this if their latest offerings is anything to go by. I mean lets be clear. They quite literally offered a new line of gpus where the entry level card is more powerful than last generations flagship at half the price. We haven't seen such a drastic jump in performance to price between generations since what. 10 years ago? They knew that 2080ti owners would be fuming but its a risk they took because they anticipate an AMD response that would threaten market share. To add to that for them to msrp the 3090 at double the price of the 3080 means they're not looking to compete in that space. Just maintain the crown. For those who care about raw performance irrespective of price. 

 

Here's my prediction. AMD will slide in with 2 or 3 cards at launch. No card to compete with Nvidia's top tier 3090. Maybe? But probably not. The flagship will perform just shy of the 3080 but at a much better price and probably more ram. It might even compete head to head in some titles especially with devs using radeon for its optimization process. And this space has and continues to grow significantly. The second card will perform somewhere halfway between the 3070 and 3080. At a price that's slightly less than halfway between the 3070 and the 3080 msrps. Then maybe a 3rd card that's shy of the 3070 performance. But at a very good price. This is where they aim to sell the most cards. Then over the next 2 years both sides will pepper the market with cards at almost every $50 price increment and partners pcb's will follow suite.

 

If AMD really is out for the crown they will have to fork so much money into rnd that the return on investment just wont make business sense. Not right now anyways. But if they continue on their current trajectory. Mark my words. In a few short years AMD will do to Nvidia what they've done to Intel. Its the long game they're playing. And Nvidia knows it. Ask yourself why Nvidia just bought ARM. They're taking AMD's threat seriously. Intel didn't see em coming. They got comfortable making the same crap year after year with small increments in performance at bigger increments in cost because they could. They got away with it because they weren't challenged. Now they're behind in rnd because they threw more money into exploiting their existing product stack for higher margins. 

 

Think of it this way. AMD is fighting a war on two fronts. They have been for a long time. Where as Intel and Nvidia have the same common adversary. For AMD to present such a great threat to Intel in such a short space of time says heaps about what they're truly capable of as a tech company. And they're pretty hot on Nvidia's heels too. These achievements speak volumes especially considering that they have far less at their disposal when compared to both Intel and Nvidia's resources respectively.  

3 words. Console. Performance. Optimisation. 

 

That AMD are heavily invested in the next-gen console space should sound huge alarm bells for both Intel & NVidia

[Rocket-Boy]

3 words. Console. Performance. Optimisation. 

 

That AMD are heavily invested in the next-gen console space should sound huge alarm bells for both Intel & NVidia

I doubt it to be honest, they were in the current gen consoles too.

AMD have tied up the console game with with hardware that is perfectly matched together.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I doubt it to be honest, they were in the current gen consoles too.

AMD have tied up the console game with with hardware that is perfectly matched together.

Ja,but that's the first gen. Very different once it has been worked on a bit, and from the PS5 launch vids re the GPU there seems to be a LOT of optimisation shared between the new gen consoles and PC. That would be their real benefit.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Bah humbug. My PSU just popped.

[popcorn_skollie]

I doubt it to be honest, they were in the current gen consoles too.

AMD have tied up the console game with with hardware that is perfectly matched together.

 

I'm struggling to find the video now but Playstation revealed some interesting things about the process of their collaboration with AMD. The general assumption that AMD slaps their existing technology to meet the requirements of the console space is misguided. Sony revealed that the process of AMD's APU development for consoles is a 2 way street. Its a bit of a crude oversimplification but an APU is the process where the CPU and GPU are integrated into a single die. This is done to mitigate high power requirements and by extension allow for far a greater degree of efficiency with regards to power consumption and by extension, thermal headroom and performance.

 

Sony revealed that its not simply a case of going to processor manufacturers and asking who can make what they need for their new console at the best price to performance. AMD doesn't simply 'win the tender' because they make good stuff at a good price. Sony worked very closely with AMD to develop this technology. And while AMD may well benefit from a significant cash injection as a result. The relationship in terms of actual tech development is far more beneficial to AMD. Their achievements in the PC space is not just a reflection of what they are able to achieve on their own merits. But rather what they were able to learn from working with other companies. AMD's recent ability to develop an entirely new generation of standards in the pc space is as much a result of in house development as it is through collaboration.

 

The ace AMD has up its sleeve as I mentioned before is that as a single company, they are able to understand the requirements of both the cpu and gpu space simultaneously. This is pivotal in creating APU design for consoles. Nvidia is still a predominantly gpu manufacturer. And their recent acquisition of ARM hints at their intentions to branch out into the cpu space and by extension...APU.

Its no coincidence that Nvidia did this. Mindfull of AMD as always.

 

Then Intel has been developing their discreet gpu for a few years now. So they too are thinking of the long game too.  

[Amberdrake]

Bah humbug. My PSU just popped.

My condolences to your wallet it's not a cheap fix.