CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[Stretch]

Debate is about PPA and CSA. Am trying to say PPA is a club in the Western Cape, nothing else. Compare that to a golf club or any other sport club and see what they do for their sport.

 

Am playing devils advocate to a large extent, but just see a successful organisation being targeted by a tarnished one and just wonder what the motivations are???

 

And that they should be - but they dont want to be a club.

[Stretch]

ok - I am out - i have said what I need to say.. At the end of the day this handbagging between the two is going to cost us all money in the long run..in the form of membership fees

[Eldron]

Me - I reckon the PPA should be allowed to operate independantly. CSA help with race safety? Pah! PPA could teach the CSA how to do it properly.

 

Mixing politics and sports (CSA) is always a bad idea.

 

CSA has the power (UCI affiliation and SA governement) - PPA has the numbers and money.

 

Personally I flippin hate the CSA - there are some good people in the organisation but as a whole it is just another typical governement controlled sporting body. Has anyone had good dealings with them? Sentiment around my group of friends is that CSA is more hinderance than helper.

 

They have a LONG way to go to convince people they are a useful organisation....

[slabs]

ok fair point, but the point i am raising is they dont want to be part of the National body - they want to be the provincial body and independent and by default not promoting the sport nationally

 

Some selective paragraphs from the affidavit:

 

PPA is the largest cycling organisation in South Africa with 18,433 members as

at 13 March 2013. It was formed some 35 years ago following the first Cape

Argus Pick n Pay Cycle Tour ("the Cycle Tour") (commonly, but incorrectly,

referred to as the ―Argus Cycle Tour‖). Its activities are restricted to the

Western Cape.

 

PPA‘s objective is to promote cycling in all its forms. PPA further acts as a

representative and lobbying body for furthering the interests of cyclists, and

was formed to liaise with and affiliate with similar organisations where

appropriate.

 

 

PPA has developed an extensive fun ride programme in the Western Cape,

and has co-ordinated its events on an ongoing basis since 1976. These fun

rides are timed, but do not award prize money. Most of the fun rides involve

service organisations such as Lions and Rotary, and have also included

schools wishing to raise funds through cycling events. PPA provides

administrative, logistical and technical advice and support for these events.8

 

PPA‘s fun ride programme has been extremely successful over the years. No

other cycling organisation in South Africa has developed equally successful

cycling programmes or arranged mass participation cycling events comparable

in scale to those that PPA and the Trust organise.

 

 

Since 2009, PPA has invested approximately R8.8 million on deserving cycling

projects and has also spent roughly R1,500,000 on development cycling. In

addition, during 2011 PPA invested R2.1 million in its Safe Cycling Campaign.

 

 

CSA, on the other hand, is a national sports body, affiliated to the South African

Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (―SASCOC‖). CSA‘s activities

are focussed on the high-end of the sport, which includes awarding of national

and provincial colours for cycling, and participation in international cycling

events.

[carbon29er]

No it does not. Like it or not ALL sport is regulated by a governing body in this country and therefore sport must adhere to that. What makes cycling special that they must not follow the same rules and procedures that athletics, soccer, rugby etc etc have to follow. Constitutionally, the sport must be run through bodies represented by provincial boundaries. PPA can still exist in its current form, except it must act as a club under WPCA - simple...i really dont see their problem

Talk about missing the boat.

 

As stated here a few times PPA WANTS to leave the sport side to CSA.

 

They are arguing that a funrider turning out for a funride organised by PPA shouldn't have to pay a CSA levy of R35.

 

Nowhere do they claim they want to tale over racing and administration of cycling in SA.

[ccc2]

my biggest gripe is:

the ppa do a wonderful job - i am a member for the past 20 years.

i attend and pay to ride/race their events.

BUT the proceeds of my entry fees goes to a charity of the organisers choice.

no if or buts , if you organise a funride the ppa want to know what charity will benefit from the proceeds.

 

i also belong to a cycling club - am a member for the last 20 years.

i attend their club rides and races BUT don't pay anything other than my annual subs.

the provincial body that my club belongs to organise races.

i pay to enter and the proceeds of my entry cover the cost and the balance is paid out in prize money

 

i am essentially a member of 2 association/clubs in CTown. one operates within the national body and the other outside.

they both have their merits. i know which one is doing more for cycling in a direct way and i know which one is using me for other purposes (admirable or not).

i say fine , why don't the ppa become a club of the local CSA region (wpca) and compete with the other clubs in the wpca for my membership.

why don't ppa become wp ppa???? that's what they were in the beginning.

let the ppa become the regional body for this region in the CSA, the csa can't take any funds from them other than affiliation fees and levies which every other promotor or organiser of cycle races pay to CSA (and ppa don't).

but they won't , they will lose at least 800 active cyclists in the wp who belong to wpca clubs.

[Stretch]

 

They are arguing that a funrider turning out for a funride organised by PPA shouldn't have to pay a CSA levy of R35.

 

 

so let me get this right, there are people arguing that the CSA should be putting up cycling lines in all municipalities and promoting health safety throughout the country, but god forbid these funriders (that will benefit from all these things) from paying R75 per year or R35 per event. Funriders will benefit from what CSA has to offer indirectly so in all aspects they must contribute to the CSA.

 

I will be the first to agree that historically CSA has a lot to be desired, but they are cleaning up their act and slowly - even though there is still a lot of work. A court application like this does absolutely nothing to help!

[ccc2]

Some selective paragraphs from the affidavit:

 

PPA is the largest cycling organisation in South Africa with 18,433 members as

at 13 March 2013. It was formed some 35 years ago following the first Cape

Argus Pick n Pay Cycle Tour ("the Cycle Tour") (commonly, but incorrectly,

referred to as the ―Argus Cycle Tour‖). Its activities are restricted to the

Western Cape.

 

PPA‘s objective is to promote cycling in all its forms. PPA further acts as a

representative and lobbying body for furthering the interests of cyclists, and

was formed to liaise with and affiliate with similar organisations where

appropriate.

 

 

PPA has developed an extensive fun ride programme in the Western Cape,

and has co-ordinated its events on an ongoing basis since 1976. These fun

rides are timed, but do not award prize money. Most of the fun rides involve

service organisations such as Lions and Rotary, and have also included

schools wishing to raise funds through cycling events. PPA provides

administrative, logistical and technical advice and support for these events.8

 

PPA‘s fun ride programme has been extremely successful over the years. No

other cycling organisation in South Africa has developed equally successful

cycling programmes or arranged mass participation cycling events comparable

in scale to those that PPA and the Trust organise.

 

 

Since 2009, PPA has invested approximately R8.8 million on deserving cycling

projects and has also spent roughly R1,500,000 on development cycling. In

addition, during 2011 PPA invested R2.1 million in its Safe Cycling Campaign.

 

 

CSA, on the other hand, is a national sports body, affiliated to the South African

Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (―SASCOC‖). CSA‘s activities

are focussed on the high-end of the sport, which includes awarding of national

and provincial colours for cycling, and participation in international cycling

events.

 

bullsh1t smoke and mirrors

and i don't have the time to tear it apart other than the last paragraph. they forgot to add that the csa is made up of provincial bodies who are made up of clubs who promote and encourage cycling in all its forms.these clubs activities are focused on developing and coaching young cyclists to reach the standard that CSA require of them to compete at international and Olympic level.

 

whoever wrote the the above affidavit must attend a development session (at the velodrome) or youth festival and see some of the bikes, equipment and kit that some development kids race on. its sad but real.

[Music Pirate]

This all sounds very similar to what happened when ASA stuck it's nose into the annual Great Train Race (a social relay road running race, against the Apple Express narrow gauge steam train, between PE and Loerie)........ it was killed off finally in around 2004, IIRC.... very sad indeed....

[JA-Q001]

I think ccc2 is more correct than most on this topic.

 

The CSA has never said it wants the PPA's money, they can't take it, they can however ask the levies and fees. Thats it, thats what every other club does aswell. The CSA is trying to encourage the people to join clubs and so, grow the cycling community, thats why you have a once off fee of R75 to affiliate to the CSA, most clubs cover that in their club fees. It would seem as if the PPA does not want to opperate as a club, but rather as a bussines and get max profit they can out of an event. If you are not a PPA member at their events, then you get no time and no seeding, while paying more, is that not the same as the CSA is doing with their affiliation fees? So they are bullying you to join them if you want to get a seeding and a time? I do not see this as the CSA wants to steal the PPA's money, they cant, they do however want the PPA to conform to SASCOC rules that were layed out to them and become part of the CSA. I think the reason why the CSA is taking so long to come up with a solution, is because they actually want to accomodate both, not just one side.

Edited June 13, 2013 by JA-Q001

[clivem]

Slabs hits the nail on the head on many points.

[Brogue]

bullsh1t smoke and mirrors

and i don't have the time to tear it apart other than the last paragraph. they forgot to add that the csa is made up of provincial bodies who are made up of clubs who promote and encourage cycling in all its forms.these clubs activities are focused on developing and coaching young cyclists to reach the standard that CSA require of them to compete at international and Olympic level.

 

whoever wrote the the above affidavit must attend a development session (at the velodrome) or youth festival and see some of the bikes, equipment and kit that some development kids race on. its sad but real.

 

Provincial bodies affiliate to the national body BY NECESSITY in terms of the CSA constitution, clubs in turn affiliate to provincial bodies BY NECESSITY for the same reason. The PPA is a voluntary leisure association, PPA membership does not preclude anyone from belonging to or participating in club, provincial or national activities.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Brogue

[madmarc]

It's interesting reading all the different views on the this subject. One thing that i'm seeing is two distinct camps on the issue. 1. The competitive rider i.e. Racing Vets, elite and or Pro riders. 2. The recreational cyclist.

 

Camp 1 needs and organization like CSA as the national controlling body of the sport, they may even see benefit from the member fees and other monies they need to pay to belong or be licensed by them. The will have to play by the rules set out by the controlling body if they want to RACE on a provincial, national or international level. In any country in any sport, a controlling body needs to be established to ensure the playing field is level and the rules and standards are adhered to. Or the sport will simply go to POT.

 

Camp 2 don't need a controlling body like the CSA (In my personal opinion). A recreational cyclist simply wants to enter a fun ride of his or her choosing and ride the best possible time they can and have a good time. We are not there to challenge for a podium finish and win money or even have any aspirations of racing overseas. The only racing that goes on is the individual racing to beat their last time or a bit of rivalry between riding mates or other club members, hell there are even some clubs and companies who have their own little internal race competitions all in the fun and spirit of cycling.

 

The problem is that camp 2 is being taxed to maintain the controlling body, and not seeing any benefit. why would you pay and not receive goods or service in return. Camp 1 is far too small to finance their own controlling body so that burden is placed on the recreational cyclist. Which I have no problem with as i'm happy to contribute towards the professional part of our sport in the hope of seeing our country represented on an international level. But this is not happening, virtually every cyclist going overseas or even racing on a national level has to pay the bulk themselves.

 

When CSA can show me, how my club or me as an individual recreational cyclist can benefit from being licensed or a member, then I will gladly pay and support them.

But until then they can get knotted, and go to provincial or national government for their funding, because that's where it should be coming from.

[Groadie]

If anyone can start a boycott the MTBers can.

 

Can anyone shed any light on why the no-camera rule exists. Because I honestly cannot think af any reason why they are banned, safety or otherwise!!!!

 

I asked the same question when starting the epic prologue this year. I had my GoPro on my helmet and was told to remove it. It has to do with safety - if you fall and land on that camera, the helmet offers little resistance. Also whilst you are falling the weight of the camera can move the positioning of the helmet on your nut; so again the effectiveness of the helmet is compromised. Thats what the safety marshall told me and it made sense.

[dirtrider]

bullsh1t smoke and mirrors

and i don't have the time to tear it apart other than the last paragraph. they forgot to add that the csa is made up of provincial bodies who are made up of clubs who promote and encourage cycling in all its forms.these clubs activities are focused on developing and coaching young cyclists to reach the standard that CSA require of them to compete at international and Olympic level.

 

whoever wrote the the above affidavit must attend a development session (at the velodrome) or youth festival and see some of the bikes, equipment and kit that some development kids race on. its sad but real.

 

Now this is pure BS !!! CSA only promote cycling at the upper level . They promote nothing , F-all , nada for me !!!!

[ccc2]

the latest from the ppa (just heard it on the radio) , the csa want all recreational cyclist to take out a license (r75). the ppa call this an unneccessary tax but they don't mention that when ppa were part of the csa structures all ppa members were automatically made a licensed member of csa. the ppa increased their annual fees BUT the ppa did not pay the R75 over to csa they kept it.