(Deon) Posted October 22, 2013 Share the only way this needs to be looked at... brake it into the simplest of actions/results... Guilty or not on these....what was his actions, what was the outcome.he turned, accident happened. there is no arguing this. Involuntary manslaughter. what will have impact on sentence, if found guilty, ye, the lines, the visibility, his remorse. G..and public perception? http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/29/2944/JSWRD00Z/posters/hanging-a-pirate-in-a-cage-on-high-ground-overlooking-the-sea.jpg Tumbleweed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share Goverment is not gonna care much for perception... This might sound racist, this was a cyclist... be that a olympian, struck by a taxi driver.each of those representing a voter base. where are they gonna get more votes from next year come elections. there goes the value of the perception component. G ..and public perception? http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/29/2944/JSWRD00Z/posters/hanging-a-pirate-in-a-cage-on-high-ground-overlooking-the-sea.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 22, 2013 Share Even IF the taxi was allowed to cross the white line, he cannot turn in front of oncoming traffic [insert Ka dish ding guillotine sound] = GUILTY the only way this needs to be looked at... brake it into the simplest of actions/results... Guilty or not on these....what was his actions, what was the outcome.he turned, accident happened. there is no arguing this. Involuntary manslaughter. what will have impact on sentence, if found guilty, ye, the lines, the visibility, his remorse. G It's not quite that simply. For a charge of culpable homicide to stick, they have to prove that he was unlawfully negligent. All we have so far if negligence, which, it could well be argued by his lawyer, was accidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymann Posted October 22, 2013 Share I commute to work by motorbike on occasion, and sometimes a specific situation arises in traffic not unlike what the road layout is in this case: Car going North is courteous and allows a gap for Car (Taxi?) travelling South waiting to turn into side street on left. Motorcyclist (me) going North doesn't realise this and comes up the inside of car, almost getting flattened by car turning in right in front of me. Cue much braking and hand signals. Strictly speaking though, I *was* in the wrong. I hope this wasn't the case in this situation....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 22, 2013 Share Goverment is not gonna care much for perception... This might sound racist, this was a cyclist... be that a olympian, struck by a taxi driver.each of those representing a voter base. where are they gonna get more votes from next year come elections. there goes the value of the perception component. G What's this got to do with the government? The legislature and the judiciary are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share It was my response to the "Perception" component, value question. Will it have value t any point/phase. I don't see it. G What's this got to do with the government? The legislature and the judiciary are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share So this potentially comes down to: was the right charges laid, consider what happened, and what can be proven and not. G It's not quite that simply. For a charge of culpable homicide to stick, they have to prove that he was unlawfully negligent. All we have so far if negligence, which, it could well be argued by his lawyer, was accidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni Posted October 22, 2013 Share I haven't been following the in and outs of this case. Is the argument whether the taxi driver turned over a solid line? Whether the line is there are not, if Stander was going straight does he not have right of way either way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 22, 2013 Share Public perception Sorry, my point being the taxi driver being hanged as an example to motorists in the fight for cycling's acceptance on the road. I distinctly recall the day Burry died, people were calling for an example to show the world. He does not fit the bill IMHO. It was my response to the "Perception" component, value question. Will it have value t any point/phase. I don't see it. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share My view of public perception though, or make that perception that is transferred to the Taxi industry, motorist industry... it is that being accountable for actions, this is (what ever the charges)... Taxi driver turned. in front of Burry/cyclist, be that turn as allowed, or not. his actions was the cause of the accident, and need to be held accountable for that. The current view by motorist, you can do things, and say, oh damm, sorry... and you're free. Oh damm, sorry I did not see you. The attitude of motorist to other road users. Point and case... the accident in Tsaneen the past weekend. G Public perception Sorry, my point being the taxi driver being hanged as an example to motorists in the fight for cycling's acceptance on the road. I distinctly recall the day Burry died, people were calling for an example to show the world. He does not fit the bill IMHO. Edited October 22, 2013 by awesme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 22, 2013 Share I haven't been following the in and outs of this case. Is the argument whether the taxi driver turned over a solid line? Whether the line is there are not, if Stander was going straight does he not have right of way either way? Yes, he would. But I don't think that makes the driver immediately guilty of culpable homicide. The traffic officer testified that he checked to see if anything was approaching but didn't see anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Low Posted October 22, 2013 Share We've got an issue at work where the wrong set of docs were sent & the result is a loss of USD36k. The person responsible made a mistake but couldnt foresee that kind of loss. She just gets judged on making the mistake, especially as it's a one-off. The court has the same type of problem, a taxi turning across oncoming traffic - is it careless, is it reckless, is it homicidal. It must happen 1,000s of times a day with minor consequences, but this time the consequences were huge. Determining the level of guilt and the right sentence is a difficult job, and has to fit into a consistent pattern to have any legitimacy. (Deon), Pants Boy and Tumbleweed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted October 22, 2013 Share I commute to work by motorbike on occasion, and sometimes a specific situation arises in traffic not unlike what the road layout is in this case: Car going North is courteous and allows a gap for Car (Taxi?) travelling South waiting to turn into side street on left. Motorcyclist (me) going North doesn't realise this and comes up the inside of car, almost getting flattened by car turning in right in front of me. Cue much braking and hand signals. Strictly speaking though, I *was* in the wrong. I hope this wasn't the case in this situation....... That is quite possible and a serious concern for the prosecution especially if there was a car that Burry overtook on the left. It's not quite that simply. For a charge of culpable homicide to stick, they have to prove that he was unlawfully negligent. All we have so far if negligence, which, it could well be argued by his lawyer, was accidental. Bollocks imo Its against the law and negligent to turn in front of oncoming traffic who has the right of way. The exception could be if the taxi driver could not see Burry in a situation like Andymann referred to above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 22, 2013 Share We've got an issue at work where the wrong set of docs were sent & the result is a loss of USD36k. The person responsible made a mistake but couldnt foresee that kind of loss. She just gets judged on making the mistake, especially as it's a one-off. The court has the same type of problem, a taxi turning across oncoming traffic - is it careless, is it reckless, is it homicidal. It must happen 1,000s of times a day with minor consequences, but this time the consequences were huge. Determining the level of guilt and the right sentence is a difficult job, and has to fit into a consistent pattern to have any legitimacy...and if the driver get's off on a light sentencing the public will rebuke the judicial system. It's a tough one, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 22, 2013 Share We've got an issue at work where the wrong set of docs were sent & the result is a loss of USD36k. The person responsible made a mistake but couldnt foresee that kind of loss. She just gets judged on making the mistake, especially as it's a one-off. The court has the same type of problem, a taxi turning across oncoming traffic - is it careless, is it reckless, is it homicidal. It must happen 1,000s of times a day with minor consequences, but this time the consequences were huge. Determining the level of guilt and the right sentence is a difficult job, and has to fit into a consistent pattern to have any legitimacy. This will be an interesting one. The issue of the interest of society may be used in arguing for aggravation of sentence should he be found guilty. That pressure from the family and public led to the charges being revived points to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nettie R Posted October 22, 2013 Share Yes, he would. But I don't think that makes the driver immediately guilty of culpable homicide. The traffic officer testified that he checked to see if anything was approaching but didn't see anything.If that is the case, the driver was unlawfully negligent. (you said the requirements for a guilty charge)The driver failed to check his blind spot before turning. Checking a blind spot is an integral (lawful) part of turning left or right, the current drivers license tests insist on it. He neglected to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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