Stretch Posted October 22, 2013 Share We've got an issue at work where the wrong set of docs were sent & the result is a loss of USD36k. The person responsible made a mistake but couldnt foresee that kind of loss. She just gets judged on making the mistake, especially as it's a one-off. The court has the same type of problem, a taxi turning across oncoming traffic - is it careless, is it reckless, is it homicidal. It must happen 1,000s of times a day with minor consequences, but this time the consequences were huge. Determining the level of guilt and the right sentence is a difficult job, and has to fit into a consistent pattern to have any legitimacy. I think that is the exact point....just like when a car skips a traffic light..you will find very few cases where a ruling of culpable homicide has been awarded...and that's why I say they should be taking the Shelly Beach Traffic police to court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 22, 2013 Share If that is the case, the driver was unlawfully negligent. (you said the requirements for a guilty charge)The driver failed to check his blind spot before turning. Checking a blind spot is an integral (lawful) part of turning left or right, the current drivers license tests insist on it. He neglected to do so. Aren't blind spots behind a driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted October 22, 2013 Share The court has the same type of problem, a taxi turning across oncoming traffic - is it careless, is it reckless, is it homicidal. It must happen 1,000s of times a day with minor consequences, but this time the consequences were huge. There's the problem.Its against the law, finished and klaar...JA!No if's and butsThe law (Thou shalt not turn across oncoming traffic) is there to prevent vehicles collisions ect....and should not be diluted with possibilities (careless, reckless, homicidal...etc....) Yes I know its not that simple, but if people simply followed the law a lot of stuff like this would not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share My view It's not the traffic police's job to make sure we abide, it is our own responsibility.We have to take ownership ourself, Traffic police is there to educate us, advise us, (in a good society) and then issue fines where we don't. G I think that is the exact point....just like when a car skips a traffic light..you will find very few cases where a ruling of culpable homicide has been awarded...and that's why I say they should be taking the Shelly Beach Traffic police to court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 22, 2013 Share Blind spots can be behind the A 'n C pillar too, just that it is not taught in the K53 that it obstructs vision. (Geez, double meaning!) On that.. I have once had a car move at the same pace as me moving my head to look behind the A pillar. I saw nothing and entered the traffic circle. It was @!&*^ close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 22, 2013 Share Blind spots can be behind the A 'n C pillar too, just that it is not taught in the K53 that it obstructs vision. (Geez, double meaning!) On that.. I have once had a car move at the same pace as me moving my head to look behind the A pillar. I saw nothing and entered the traffic circle. It was @!&*^ close! That's okay…I don't think anyone in Cape Town knows how to use traffic circles… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 22, 2013 Share That's okay…I don't think anyone in Cape Town knows how to use traffic circles… Ja, she had no clue.. aren't you supposed to hoot or something?! Joe Low 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted October 22, 2013 Share My view It's not the traffic police's job to make sure we abide, it is our own responsibility.We have to take ownership ourself, Traffic police is there to educate us, advise us, (in a good society) and then issue fines where we don't. G I think...Stretches point was that if law enforcement was strictly and constantly applied with zero tolerance, we would be less inclined to take those little indiscretions (not stopping, driving thru red lights, turning in front of traffic, pushing bikes off the road, talking / texting on phones whilst driving, .etc..etc...). In turn someone has to put pressure on the traffic police to make sure they don't become fat and lazy.... Oops to late she screamed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share and I won't disagree, If law's were better enforced, with better sentences then the deterrent would be there, people will realise there are consequences for their actions. Thats partly why I don't believe the new 1.5m law will help in any way, since the law's already there are not being enforced anyhow, so what difference is another law going to make. G I think...Stretches point was that if law enforcement was strictly and constantly applied with zero tolerance, we would be less inclined to take those little indiscretions (not stopping, driving thru red lights, turning in front of traffic, pushing bikes off the road, talking / texting on phones whilst driving, .etc..etc...). In turn someone has to put pressure on the traffic police to make sure they don't become fat and lazy.... Oops to late she screamed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted October 22, 2013 Share and I won't disagree, If law's were better enforced, with better sentences then the deterrent would be there, people will realise there are consequences for their actions. Thats partly why I don't believe the new 1.5m law will help in any way, since the law's already there are not being enforced anyhow, so what difference is another law going to make. G yes - that is what I am saying. I am talking about law enforcement here. With proper law enforcement people will think twice about indiscretions. Right now it is the wild west. Sure it is our responsibility, but it is evident that the moral standards have dropped significantly, and that is a result of the zero consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmonooit Posted October 22, 2013 Share This problem has multiple aspects, inter alia 1) Ineffective law enforcement nationally.2) The culture of driving is dismal: average driver has little and/or poor education and often a serious selfish attitude problem, they should not be in control of a motor vehicle that can cause death so easily to others and often acts with impunity. Edited October 22, 2013 by kosmonooit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted October 22, 2013 Share we have a society of unlawful attitude we need to get to a attitude of abiding by the laws without supervision, big law's and small laws. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted October 22, 2013 Share I commute to work by motorbike on occasion, and sometimes a specific situation arises in traffic not unlike what the road layout is in this case: Car going North is courteous and allows a gap for Car (Taxi?) travelling South waiting to turn into side street on left. Motorcyclist (me) going North doesn't realise this and comes up the inside of car, almost getting flattened by car turning in right in front of me. Cue much braking and hand signals. Strictly speaking though, I *was* in the wrong. I hope this wasn't the case in this situation.......Ditto - I had a near miss with the exact same circumstances on my bicyle. cars letting other cars cross often gets messy with anything more than one single line of vehicles. not to say thats what happened in Burry's case though... Edited October 22, 2013 by dracs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted October 22, 2013 Share I have said it before and I will say it again. The real people that should be taken to court here are the Traffic Police. The less they do, the more people push the legal limits.. That means speeding, drinking and driving, texting and driving, turning illegally, skipping stop streets and lights, driving unroadworthy vehicles etc etc....If you can get away with because the police force is sitting on their arse..then you will, and that is the REAL problem. If I were the standers I would seriously consider suing the government.... Why are you shifting the blame to an unrelated party? Shouldn't we take resonsibility for our own actions? Your argument doesn't really make sense, because you can argue your point for any act against the law. Difficult one, because a grey area between complete nanny state and complete freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted October 22, 2013 Share I commute to work by motorbike on occasion, and sometimes a specific situation arises in traffic not unlike what the road layout is in this case: Car going North is courteous and allows a gap for Car (Taxi?) travelling South waiting to turn into side street on left. Motorcyclist (me) going North doesn't realise this and comes up the inside of car, almost getting flattened by car turning in right in front of me. Cue much braking and hand signals. Strictly speaking though, I *was* in the wrong. I hope this wasn't the case in this situation....... Either that or the car on the same side drives by and specifically with bigger SUVs and taxis limiting the visibility the driver wanting to turn sees no traffic and turns and hits a cyclist or biker. It's actually a good reason why not to cycle in the yellow lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted October 22, 2013 Share Dries Liebenberg@DriesLiebenberg1hTaxi driver in Burry Stander case overtook traffic on solid line, missed turn to side-street at time of crash - witness #sabcnews Dries Liebenberg@DriesLiebenberg3mTaxi driver showed no concern for critically injured Burry Stander after crash, Port Shepstone court told #sabcnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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