Eldron Posted July 16, 2013 Share Just found the reference for you: http://www.wada-ama....t-wada/history/ Ah. Thanks for that! Lucky Luke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted July 16, 2013 Share On the TT and climbing thing - power is power - whether up a hill or on the flat. Froom is about the 4th best TT'er in the world on flat roads (you all know who the best 3 are). Thats about right for a guy who is currently the best GC rider in the world by some margin. EZRider and SwissVan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted July 16, 2013 Share On the TT and climbing thing - power is power - whether up a hill or on the flat. Froom is about the 4th best TT'er in the world on flat roads (you all know who the best 3 are). Thats about right for a guy who is currently the best GC rider in the world by some margin. No. In a TT it's all about power to wind resistance ratio. On a climb it's all about power to weight ratio. Two very different things. If your statement was true then Andre Greipel would have hammered Chris Froome up Ventoux Andrew Steer, DIPSLICK and GLuvsMtb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted July 16, 2013 Share I think I have a solution for Froome et al. A few posts ago I described the conundrum top riders find themselves in; how to prove the unprovable, that you ride cleanly. Reading and watching some Tour de France coverage this month has not made me any more optimistic, but not on account of the riders. It’s most of the media that seems to have learned little (with hopeful exceptions). But don’t despair! http://gerard.cc/2013/07/15/stop-asking-questions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie Posted July 16, 2013 Share On the TT and climbing thing - power is power - whether up a hill or on the flat. Froom is about the 4th best TT'er in the world on flat roads (you all know who the best 3 are). Thats about right for a guy who is currently the best GC rider in the world by some margin.TT performance depends on power vs drag ratio, climb performance depends on power vs weight ratio. Not the same thing. Biggest indicator for dope is a jump in TT performance, like Basso, Stefan Schumacher, Rasmusen. A natural talent with a good TT can lose weight and become a good climber. A good climber cant gain enormous power and suddenly TT well - power gain = some form of performance booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted July 16, 2013 Share No. In a TT it's all about power to wind resistance ratio. On a climb it's all about power to weight ratio. Two very different things. If your statement was true then Andre Greipel would have hammered Chris Froome up Ventoux Come on now you are misrepresenting my point! With equal air resistance on a flat road Greipel will beat Froome over 10 seconds 100 times out of a hundred. On the same flat (airless) road Froome will beat Greipel 100 times out of a hundred over 1 hour (or 20 minutes). The same would apply if the road had an 8 degree tilt even with Froome's substantial weight advantage on Greipel - over 10 seconds Grepel will slaughter him. They have and train for completely different power profiles. Power to weight or power to air and road resistance - power is still power. Froome has it and can sustain it. Edited July 16, 2013 by dracs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-Zulu Posted July 16, 2013 Share fair point but the 2nd place guy didnt stomp the field in a flat TT as well......Grand Tour GC guys are amazing, they climb with the best climbing specialists and then TT with the best TT'ers?Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted July 16, 2013 Share TT performance depends on power vs drag ratio, climb performance depends on power vs weight ratio. Not the same thing. Biggest indicator for dope is a jump in TT performance, like Basso, Stefan Schumacher, Rasmusen. A natural talent with a good TT can lose weight and become a good climber. A good climber cant gain enormous power and suddenly TT well - power gain = some form of performance booster.Umm, yes exactly what you said there. "a good TT can lose weight and become a good climber." Are you suggesting that this statement did not apply to Froome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonder Woman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Grew up in RSARides under EnglandLives in Monaco Gotta love these sportsman. It really is sad how previous experience has tainted the sport so much that I think even those defending are in doubts to some degree. It's sad that the riders now really have to prove themselves clean to be believed but that's the way the sport is at present. It was still awesome to watch Froome and Quintana, it's the reason we watch the race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted July 16, 2013 Share Come on now you are misrepresenting my point! With equal air resistance on a flat road Greipel will beat Froome over 10 seconds 100 times out of a hundred. On the same flat (airless) road Froome will beat Greipel 100 times out of a hundred over 1 hour (or 20 minutes). The same would apply if the road had an 8 degree tilt even with Froome's substantial weight advantage on Greipel - over 10 seconds Grepel will slaughter him. They have and train for completely different power profiles. Power to weight or power to air and road resistance - power is still power. Froome has it and can sustain it. The second part of my post was a joke. You don't understand the basic concept of power to weight ratio or power to wind resistance ratio. I would suggest googling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted July 16, 2013 Share Interesting read: http://roadcyclinguk.com/blogs/comment-armchair-analysts-risk-tearing-chris-froomes-reputation-to-shreds.html But while we’re at liberty to ask the questions, any accusation or acquittal should be based on fact not fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted July 16, 2013 Share The second part of my post was a joke. You don't understand the basic concept of power to weight ratio or power to wind resistance ratio. I would suggest googling it.wow patronise much? Interesting that you conclude that. What part of my posts above suggest I don't understand the difference? And please do tell me how the power you need to overcome one is different to the power you need to overcome the other? So I'm pretty sure the one is measured in Watts - what is this other "power" measured in? Froome is not a heavy weight and also not particulalry a light weight. This means he is typical of most successful GC riders through the years (if a little more ungainly than most). As for TT - he has always been strong but no doubt this year he has significantly improved his position on the bike. Edited July 16, 2013 by dracs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted July 16, 2013 Share Interesting read: http://roadcyclinguk...-to-shreds.html But while we’re at liberty to ask the questions, any accusation or acquittal should be based on fact not fiction. "“My team-mates and I have slept on volcanoes to get ready for this, we have been away from home for months training together, working hard to get here. Here I am being accused of being a cheat and a liar, and that is not cool." Yoh - sounds reminiscint of someone else. "I'm sorry you dont believe in miracles" Team SKY are not beyond suspicion as you are seeming to imply. Where did Chris Froome come from why did Bradley Wiggins refuse for Paul Kimmage to ride with the Team last year when David Brailsford had agreed , why offer that he joins after Day8 , what were they hiding.I am more suspcious of Froome than Armstrong when he initially started dominating cycling he had records to back up his past junior perfomances. Why did Team SKY hire a doping Dr and why did they have a coterie of past dopers when their stated mission from Day 1 was Zero Tolerance to doping.Why did Chris Froome stop sending his data to Bike Pure 18 months when he always used to do do. Nothing about Team SKY convinces that they are any cleaner than the other Teams, in fact their behaviour lends to suspicion and again where did Chris Froome come.He was about to be dropped by Team SKY before he won the Vuelta and now of all of sudden he is a winner.Dave Brailsford & Team SKY have serious questions to answer , their continued refusal to release their Team data just lends to more suspicion. Edited July 16, 2013 by fandacious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted July 16, 2013 Share wow patronise much? Interesting that you conclude that. What part of my posts above suggest I don't understand the difference? And please do tell me how the power you need to overcome one is different to the power you need to overcome the other? Is the one measured in Watts and the other in Zwatts? Froome is not a heavy weight and also not particulalry a light weight. This means he is typical of most successful GC riders through the years (if a little more ungainly than most). In a TT there are two variable. Power and wind resistace. Wind resistance matters a lot because it's exponential. Weight doesn't matter at all because it's carried by the bicycle and the road (for the most part) is flat. More power equals faster - that is why TTers tend to be more muscular and heavier. Martin is 76kg - Fabian is 80something. On a climb there are two variables: Power and weight. Wind resistance matters only slightly because speeds are lower. More power + LESS WEIGHT = faster. Froome weighs 69kg. That immediately gives him a 10% advantage over Tony Martin ie: Tony Martin has to lay down 10% more power than Froome to go the same speed. Power when viewed in isolation is meaningless - your "power is still power" statement is meaningless if it doesn't take wind resistance and weight into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted July 16, 2013 Share im sure its said before but the organizers have a role to play, they place Mt Ventoux at the end of the longest stage and then are making they guys go up Alp d'heuz twice in one day! if the riders want us to assume they're clean, they have to ride a three week stage race at a plausible average speed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmonooit Posted July 16, 2013 Share jeez this whole thing is beginning to sound like a conspiracy theory - cobbled together pseudo facts. In my opinion Chris and Sky are clean, they have use sports science and wisdom based on talent, commitment and ability to achieve these results. Dave Brailsford's integrity is beyond question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now