50mm vs 38mm Carbon wheel set

[Trackside]

There haven't been any real changes in race results between guys who switched to carbon deep sections and guys who still ride their old faithful alu wheels. Have a look at the Racetec and Championchip results over the years and try to figure out if the top results has changed drastically because of some guys now using deep sections. Even the winning times haven't changed that much. My times improved more than other guys I know by changing my training in stead of buying deep section wheels. I used 32 spoke White Industries wheels with Mavic CXP rims for years while guys around me spent loads of cash on deep sections. I still climbed with them and still stayed with them on flats no matter what the conditions. And when I break a spoke or dent a rim I fork out much less money to get it repaired or replaced.

[David Marshall]

I built myself some 38mm and love them.  My son opted for 45 mm and he loves his as well!  I even feel the 38's in the wind but he just laughs at me.  I am 72kg and he is 84.  Different riding styles as well.  He is the policeman on a VA team while I am a wheel sucker in VC.  The bigger profile on the 50 mm is great for the power riders on the front and the 38 mm a bit lighter for the average guys.

['Dale]

There haven't been any real changes in race results between guys who switched to carbon deep sections and guys who still ride their old faithful alu wheels. Have a look at the Racetec and Championchip results over the years and try to figure out if the top results has changed drastically because of some guys now using deep sections. Even the winning times haven't changed that much. My times improved more than other guys I know by changing my training in stead of buying deep section wheels. I used 32 spoke White Industries wheels with Mavic CXP rims for years while guys around me spent loads of cash on deep sections. I still climbed with them and still stayed with them on flats no matter what the conditions. And when I break a spoke or dent a rim I fork out much less money to get it repaired or replaced.

Yip

In a amateur bunch, minor performance gains

At high speeds, say 40 plus, the deeper rim demand a bit less energy because of aerodynamics

 

But damn

It is sexier!

['Dale]

I train with 50s as I train solo mostly.

Race with 40as as I sit wheel and prefer a more nippy acceleration with a lighter hoop.

 

The ideal depth for the Cape gusts is 40 or less hey

[HdB]

I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better for me to just go with really nice alu wheels as my racing wheels, for example the American Classic Argent Tubeless, or similar.

 

Cheaper than carbon clinchers, also very light, no need to swap brake pads, and I will feel safe using them regardless of the wind.

Spending more on roughly the same depth carbon clinchers (for example, DH 38mm's) seem a little pointless. And if I get 50mm's, and don't use them if the weather is bad, it seems like a waste of money and I would lose the advantage of training with my heavier wheels and racing with the lighter ones.

['Dale]

I use brieke that are compatible with both carbon and alu braking surface

 

Swisstop Black Prince

 

My deep winter training wheels are alu

[mtbDobby]

HI All,

 

So I am trying to decide on Token C50 which is very sexy but expensive and the Concept 38mm which is a fair amount cheaper. Anybody in a position to offer advice on the 2?

[shawnvan]

I use brieke that are compatible with both carbon and alu braking surface

 

Swisstop Black Prince

 

My deep winter training wheels are alu

 

Pretty aweful idea using the same pads on alu & carbon wheels... 

 

Alu rims tend to leave reside and even little embedded metal shards in the pads, which can then properly scratch up or destroy your nice carbon rims.  

 

Unless you are sanding down the pads each time you swap wheels... even then I wouldn't risk missing an embedded shard in a pad.  

[Underachiever]

HI All,

 

So I am trying to decide on Token C50 which is very sexy but expensive and the Concept 38mm which is a fair amount cheaper. Anybody in a position to offer advice on the 2?

Consider the 38mm Dark Horse Carbons too.  Mate of mine had a bad experience with Concept hoops disintegrating due to overheating.

[nonky]

Pretty aweful idea using the same pads on alu & carbon wheels... 

 

Alu rims tend to leave reside and even little embedded metal shards in the pads, which can then properly scratch up or destroy your nice carbon rims.  

 

Unless you are sanding down the pads each time you swap wheels... even then I wouldn't risk missing an embedded shard in a pad.  

Thanks for that info - did not know that.

[Veebee]

search the forum before deciding on the Darkhorse, there has been some posts on them in recent weeks.

[Velouria]

I would like to add that I have only been blown off my bike once this season so far, on an uphill, doing about 20km/h. Ended going over the armco barrier  . I'm still convinced it's worth it to ride 65mm wheels though, for coolness factor alone!

[mtbDobby]

lol - thanks - so I am assuming some negative reviews in some form or other on concept/darkhorse....that leaves Token, I suppose you get what you pay for then

[Rocket-Boy]

lol - thanks - so I am assuming some negative reviews in some form or other on concept/darkhorse....that leaves Token, I suppose you get what you pay for then

never heard anything bad about the token wheels, I doubt you would be sad with a set of them.

[raptor-22]

For a long time my answer would be 80mm for racing, because the climbs we race on are so short and almost never at the end of the race. However, I hear the idiots that call themselves UCI have decided to ban rims over 60mm as of next year (after they have been fine for the past 10 years or so.)

 

My answer now is 60mm, or as close as you can get to it.

 

Independant testing done in 2008 (http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15505311.html ) showed that a Zipp 808 front wheel took 16.7w to turn at 50kph, a 404 took 19.9w, and the 37mm rim took 24.6w to turn. Over our routes, the weight difference will have no noticable effect at all, because the climbs are small and the accelerations very low. The 58mm saves about 4-5w over the 38mm, the 80mm about 8w. If there is a cross wind, the deeper rim will have more drag savings.

 

Most importantly, the deeper rim looks faster.

 

 

More wetted area does not have less drag. Induced drag is increased. There is a higher lift coefficient in a cross wind so the lift to drag ratio may be better for a deeper section wheel but that depends greatly on the tyre choise and the section of the tyre rim combination.

 

The biggest drag saving is for the rider to get lower on the bike. Rims make such a negligable difference when compared to the rider position

[Veebee]

lol - thanks - so I am assuming some negative reviews in some form or other on concept/darkhorse....that leaves Token, I suppose you get what you pay for then

 

Best to read for yourself...

I have been using the C50's for a few months now, and have nothing to complain about. I am on the heavy side - 92kg and don't have any flex etc.

 

I see you in Jozi, best to get in touch with Warren from Token and have a chat to him, i'm sure he can work out a deal for you. There is also another topic with many raves about Token so you can look for that also.