Rogue riders: how to find a workable solution?

[Cassie]

an attitude of entitlement wont help anyone. Unfortunately the club builds, maintains and negotiate because of the empowerment through numbers.. now that is positive for all, so why would you feel so entitled if you dont make yourself part of that collective I ask, its not a gang or a"bende" my dear friend. Paying R550 to have access to all this brilliant trails that we have in Tygerberg and you dont have to do anything, you dont even have to wear clubkit! Its an absolute no brainer!!! So lets pull up our skirts HTFU , pay our dues and protect the PRIVILEDGE that a lot of other people worked so hard to achieve. Jinne!!!

 

yip!! He also thinks that "trail fairies" are responsible for putting up & maintaining those trails....how can you argue against that??? Next arguement would be "how dare the club make any money?"

[Cassie]

 

Cassie jy in vir die Monster?

 

Ekke "guide" op die korter roete!! :blush:

te onfiks om ouens op die lang klimme te guide...hulle sal die heel tyd vir MY moet wag!! en dit mag mos nie wees nie!!

 

so, my "kort" roete sal so 50+km wees (sonder die groot klimme)...

[wiledog_x]

It is this dumb selfish attitude that is the problem. Jeez are you stupid you are not allowed to ride on private property, this is law. If it was not for the club all riding would be illegal. By not belonging to the club you are trespassing on private property, if the club did not organize access you are still trespassing on private property. Your attitude and mindset is BS...

 

MrX i have no problem with paying to ride on private property, like i said. if i need to belong to a damn club to ride there, then you can keep your trails - or put up a gate and charge me a fee to ride, but don't lump me with the irresponsibles. i'm a responsible biker who doesn't litter, who doesn't climb over closed gates etc. yet you call me a freeloader. there are fewer and fewer decent places to ride because of people's attitudes - clubs and rogue riders alike. i take offense at being called a rogue rider... all rides i organise i impress on riders the respect for other users and private land. this thread is turning into a bashing of riders who don't belong in a club.

[Flowta]

Who does he pay? the club? the landowner?

 

if there are structures in place (like Jonkers for example)...then club membership is not necessary...however, our routes are PRIVATE...so the only way to ride them is to pay the club membership...until we come up with a workeable solution i.t.o. day passes.

 

PS: by joining a club, it does not mean you have to kumbya around the campfire with 100's of strangers...you just need a member identifying board, that's all. No board - no ride on trails...easy!

 

Red Barn is in GAUTENG!!!!

[Flowta]

yip!! He also thinks that "trail fairies" are responsible for putting up & maintaining those trails....how can you argue against that??? Next arguement would be "how dare the club make any money?"

 

Who are you referring to?

 

You guys should actually go back and read properly what some of the guys have written

[CatGirl]

Ekke "guide" op die korter roete!! :blush:

te onfiks om ouens op die lang klimme te guide...hulle sal die heel tyd vir MY moet wag!! en dit mag mos nie wees nie!!

 

so, my "kort" roete sal so 50+km wees (sonder die groot klimme)...

 

LOL LOL

nee ma righty dan, sal jou sien volgende sondag!

[Mr X]

MrX i have no problem with paying to ride on private property, like i said. if i need to belong to a damn club to ride there, then you can keep your trails - or put up a gate and charge me a fee to ride, but don't lump me with the irresponsibles. i'm a responsible biker who doesn't litter, who doesn't climb over closed gates etc. yet you call me a freeloader. there are fewer and fewer decent places to ride because of people's attitudes - clubs and rogue riders alike. i take offense at being called a rogue rider... all rides i organise i impress on riders the respect for other users and private land. this thread is turning into a bashing of riders who don't belong in a club.

 

but expecting someone to belong to a club to have access to trails is nonsense. i don't belong to a club and i won't either - so i'm then seen as a "rogue rider"? that's BS....

 

Why is it nonsense then? Explain? Do not mix up public paid trails with private property. It is great if a club can organize access to ride on private property, why is this nonsense?

 

Nobody said anybody is rogue rider by not belonging to a club. If you ride paid trails without paying you are a rogue rider. What is so bad about joining a club vs paying some other entity? You get access to ride where you normally can not, it is a privilege, not BS...

[silvertemplar]

MrX i have no problem with paying to ride on private property, like i said. if i need to belong to a damn club to ride there, then you can keep your trails - or put up a gate and charge me a fee to ride, but don't lump me with the irresponsibles. i'm a responsible biker who doesn't litter, who doesn't climb over closed gates etc. yet you call me a freeloader. there are fewer and fewer decent places to ride because of people's attitudes - clubs and rogue riders alike. i take offense at being called a rogue rider... all rides i organise i impress on riders the respect for other users and private land. this thread is turning into a bashing of riders who don't belong in a club.

 

I don't see what the problem with joining a "club" for riding specific sections of land that are considered private is here?. Since you are in gauteng, this is no different than joining the Friends of Rietvlei/Groenkloof "club" for an annual fee of say R600 and being allowed to ride Groenkloof and Rietvlei by just showing your card.

 

Same thing with the Voortrekker Monument, they also got a "Friends of the Monument" club which is like R150 a year (last time i checked) and then you can come and go there as you please , in the past being a member allowed you to even enter and exit much later/earlier than their normal hours. So what is the issue here?

 

Above areas have the time and resources to set up manned access gates allowing you to pay "per ride" which is a convenience. However no one can expect farmers/private landowners to do this? The best they can do is have an annual fee system and this would imply "being a member of something" . Whether it is called a "club" or a "federation" or a "movement" or "affiliation" , i really can't fathom what the problem with joining such a group is?

 

I'd imagine maybe it's related to being forced joining an official cycling / running club to get a cycling/running license for events, but this has nothing to do with that. The assumption is the mentioned clubs/affiliations are not also forcing you to pay unrelated fees (i.e. being forced to join multiple cycling clubs and having to pay admin fees unrelated to having access to cycling areas).

[Odinson]

I thought it good to revive this thread. Have seen on Facebook that both Heia Safari and Avianto are having a lot of trouble with rogue riders recently. This is what Heia had to say:

 

Another 5 cyclists caught cycling on our trails this morning without boards or paying . In the last month we have stopped over 50 cyclists and runners who deliberately did not pay or just decided to keep boards from there last visit to avoid paying ,this is not fare on those who follow the rules or on Hero who invest massive time ,effort and money to create these trails .

 

Bad grammar aside, I agree with Heia. Rogue riding is so bloody idiotic - just pay the small fee to access the trails. 

[Hackster]

MrX i have no problem with paying to ride on private property, like i said. if i need to belong to a damn club to ride there, then you can keep your trails - or put up a gate and charge me a fee to ride, but don't lump me with the irresponsibles. i'm a responsible biker who doesn't litter, who doesn't climb over closed gates etc. yet you call me a freeloader. there are fewer and fewer decent places to ride because of people's attitudes - clubs and rogue riders alike. i take offense at being called a rogue rider... all rides i organise i impress on riders the respect for other users and private land. this thread is turning into a bashing of riders who don't belong in a club.

I'm not sure I understand your point. The price of entry for some trails is a trail fee, payable on the day, or as an annual fee. The price of entry for other trails is a club fee, payable as an annual fee. Different names but pretty much the same thing. Why do you have such a problem with paying the club fee? As others have pointed out, such membership doesn't have any onerous requirements. What's really ironic, is that you actually sound like the type of guy that the club would love to have as a member...

[Shepherd]

I have not read 9 pages of back and forth.

 

But some constructive input from me.

 

In Durban we have an association called EMBA (eThekwini Mountain Biking Association).

 

It works like a clock!!

 

Local clubs must register with EMBA, only a number of them do.

 

You join an affiliated club and then you can join EMBA.

 

On behalf of the clubs EMBA negotiates routes, time restrictions as its a working farm and more for the riders safety as big trucks and trackers roam the land, safety for riders on the road, security(Dedicated Enforce bakkies), etc with Tongaat Huletts which are working sugar cane farms.

 

We have a couple of 100km worth of tracks laid out for us.They also have guided rides on weekends and are heavily involved in social development projects to get the previously disadvantaged people on bicycles as well. A number of guides are from these programs (Similar to what Giba Gorge does.)

 

You get a membership board, and card which you must have with you at all times.

 

I am a member with ROAG, so that and CSA costs me R175 or R195 a year.

 

EMBA (has not changed in 4 years), cost me R400 per year.

 

Total cost to ride as much as I want, just shy of R600....

 

At R50 per ride anywhere else, I ride a min of twice a week... it pays it self within the first month of having it... 

 

___________

 

EMBA boards are limited to a couple of 100 people, perhaps into the 1000's, on weekends you have an awsome community as you always run into other bikers around and groups of riders.

 

Because its so popular EMBA has a HUGE waiting list every year for new people to join as you automatically get one if you had one the year before granted its renewed before cut off date to open for waiting list.

__________________________________________________ 

 

Yes we do have rogue riders that come out as well, you will always have this problem, but everyone looks out for everyone and never really hear of issues. 

 

Never had routes closed to us because of misuse...

 

We also have the buy in from the municipality which I am sure makes things easier for the EMBA in terms of leverage.

 

__________

 

I would suggest you guys perhaps get in touch with the lady who runs EMBA and have a chat with her. She would understand your pain and be able to offer advise on the pit fall they have ran into with this system. I think they had been at it for at least 8-10 years and has grown and grown.

 

If you would like details please PM me your email address and I will forward them onto you.

 

_________________

 

LONG WINDED STORY OVER... 

 

Have a good one guys!

[Tubehunter]

For MrX and the others crying to join the Club:

If you do not live in the area and only visit the trail area a few times a year, specifically going out there to ride it, would you prefer to pay a day rate or are you happy to pay R350 in annual fees knowing you are likely only going to ride there once??? Where oh where is the benefit in joining the club then and how do you justify this cost as a once off?

[Pusher]

I thought it good to revive this thread. Have seen on Facebook that both Heia Safari and Avianto are having a lot of trouble with rogue riders recently. This is what Heia had to say:

 

Another 5 cyclists caught cycling on our trails this morning without boards or paying . In the last month we have stopped over 50 cyclists and runners who deliberately did not pay or just decided to keep boards from there last visit to avoid paying ,this is not fare on those who follow the rules or on Hero who invest massive time ,effort and money to create these trails .

 

Bad grammar aside, I agree with Heia. Rogue riding is so bloody idiotic - just pay the small fee to access the trails. 

Nothern Farms have also been having problems with riders jumping the fence at the bottom of the farm and riding their trails.

[Skubarra]

 

 

EMBA boards are limited to a couple of 100 people, perhaps into the 1000's, on weekends you have an awsome community as you always run into other bikers around and groups of riders.

 

Because its so popular EMBA has a HUGE waiting list every year for new people to join as you automatically get one if you had one the year before granted its renewed before cut off date to open for waiting list.

__________________________________________________ 

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something but how would limiting membership to a few people help against rogue riding? Now people would have an excuse - "I'm on the wating list" 

[Bonus]

I thought it good to revive this thread. Have seen on Facebook that both Heia Safari and Avianto are having a lot of trouble with rogue riders recently. This is what Heia had to say:

 

Another 5 cyclists caught cycling on our trails this morning without boards or paying . In the last month we have stopped over 50 cyclists and runners who deliberately did not pay or just decided to keep boards from there last visit to avoid paying ,this is not fare on those who follow the rules or on Hero who invest massive time ,effort and money to create these trails .

 

Bad grammar aside, I agree with Heia. Rogue riding is so bloody idiotic - just pay the small fee to access the trails.

 

Saw this too. This sort of asshole behaviour is going to mess it up for everybody in the end.

[Shepherd]

 

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something but how would limiting membership to a few people help against rogue riding? Now people would have an excuse - "I'm on the wating list" 

 

 

 

When EMBA started I am sure the uptake was not as huge as today.

 

However the biggest thing is that these are daily working farms, they cant have tens of thousands of people just roaming around with EMBA boards.

 

At some stage it hampers the farmers ability to commercially operate, and endangering people, lawsuits because a tractor or cane truck took out a group of cyclists, etc....

 

It is easier for the farms to not have us there at all............... EMBA allows us to have a harmonious coexistence, everyone benefits.

 

 

 

My point here is rather simple:

 

- Initiative is supported by municipality

- Its not one club pushing for this section of trails, and building or negotiating with a few farmers, and another club for a different section. 

- Been going for 8+ years, very strong

- Cyclists support EMBA in a big way, the system works...

- Less need to jump fences and do as you please

- Farmers had not been threatening to throw us off their land, which is their lively hood.

- Safety is there

- Security is there

- You can get a temp pass if you want to go ride with a group, same as any other cycling park/venue.

 

 

 

Its simple, you will never be able to stop all rogue people on anything for anything... People always look for a loop hole.

 

EMBA sounds like they address a lot of issues mentioned in the initial post. 

 

All I am saying is chat to them, they had been at it for a LONG time and can help address a lot of other pain points which must be there but arent mentioned in the initial post...