mazambaan Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Funnily enough I've also found that a really hot bath with bicarb seems to help but best the same night. Helped me survive the blasted Himeville Notts 100km.
Spinnekop Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 @Swiss, anti-inflammatories are not advisable in a sports setting in the immediate day or two following strenuous exercise. There are more chances of causing kidney damage especially if you do not hydrate properly post exercise. With strenuous exercise comes a certain amount muscle damage releasing myoglobin which in turn causes kidney injury as it could hamper the filtration functionality of kidneys. If substances like potassium are then not filtered from system it could cause abnormal heart rhythms. In SA the consensus in emergency units is to avoid anti-inflammatories for all sports related injuries especially fractures. Using Arnica oil or other massage ointments is better suited for sore muscles. Very interesting post. Thank you for this. Even after so many years of cycling one still learns....
V12man Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Have don't this plenty of times. I have even sat in a river in Sabie once. The cold water helps reduce swelling in the muscle It actually reduces the core muscle temperature - high muscle temps being one of the factors implicated in DOMS - and the harder you work, the higher the muscle temp - actively reducing the length of time the muscle is at high temp should (in theory) reduce DOMS - I liken it to sous vida cooking - a long lime at slightly elevated temperatures still cooks the food... as does a short time at very high temps... and long low intensity work as well as short high intensity work both lead to soreness from time to time. Whatever the theory.... it feels good....
V12man Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 @Swiss, anti-inflammatories are not advisable in a sports setting in the immediate day or two following strenuous exercise. There are more chances of causing kidney damage especially if you do not hydrate properly post exercise. With strenuous exercise comes a certain amount muscle damage releasing myoglobin which in turn causes kidney injury as it could hamper the filtration functionality of kidneys. If substances like potassium are then not filtered from system it could cause abnormal heart rhythms. In SA the consensus in emergency units is to avoid anti-inflammatories for all sports related injuries especially fractures. Using Arnica oil or other massage ointments is better suited for sore muscles. Cippo - look at the mechanism that NSAID's use to effect - they impact a variety of prostaglandins, and one of the side effects is reduced renal blood flow, as well as some reduced gastric motility and associated side effects. The reduced renal (kidney) blood flow can do considerable damage to the kidney - I have posted a few times on the ABSOLUTE contra indication of anti inflammatory (NSAID) use during and after endurance exercise - bottom line - stay away.. Capricorn, Sniffie and Cippo 3
Sitting slip Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 As a conditioning coach i get to deal with this alot. Glutamine and bibruphin combo(more glutamine than els) is a great drink to help recovery. Foam rolling is good just replace the foam roller with and under ground water pipe. Get real deep. Short sessions of 10sec per side 5 round 3 times a day. Then a going high protein diet for a week to get your recovery sped up. And some dairy products ( milk,yogurt not cheese).Continuing to train will cause more muscle to break down and can become so infected that ops will be needed and in extreme cases like some (dumb crossfit) high intensity cases of over use, you can die.. Big Blade Kinetics
nuge Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I've found rubbing an ice pack on the quads and calves after a hard session or race limits the pain and seems to speed up recovery.
Shepherd Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Glutmine after any hectic work out will help prevent this.... Also a slow spinning session to get the legs moving help break down that stiffness... But Glutmine works like a bomb...
Cassie Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Foam roller, and a towel for the tears.... Seriously, I find that going for a ride the day after often reduces the pain significantly. But thats me, and i think everyone reacts differently to hese kinds of things. my bodyweight rainer's advice is that one should always try and attend the next session after a hard workout...this combats the onset of DOMS and I can really vouch for that!! it's a biaatch to strat going again...but afterwards the effect is very rewarding!! I'm a big advocate for the 'continue with excercise but just at a slower pace..." it get rid of the excess lactate in the muscles most efficiently...
Capricorn Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Cippo and V12man: loving the exchanges. finally stuff worth reading!
Cassie Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 It actually reduces the core muscle temperature - high muscle temps being one of the factors implicated in DOMS - and the harder you work, the higher the muscle temp - actively reducing the length of time the muscle is at high temp should (in theory) reduce DOMS - I liken it to sous vida cooking - a long lime at slightly elevated temperatures still cooks the food... as does a short time at very high temps... and long low intensity work as well as short high intensity work both lead to soreness from time to time. Whatever the theory.... it feels good.... THAT'S WHY NFL FOOTBALL PLAYERS SIT IN THOSE ICE BATHS AFTER THEIR GAMES?? {sorry for shouting...too lazy to retype..}
Sniffie Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Cippo - look at the mechanism that NSAID's use to effect - they impact a variety of prostaglandins, and one of the side effects is reduced renal blood flow, as well as some reduced gastric motility and associated side effects. The reduced renal (kidney) blood flow can do considerable damage to the kidney - I have posted a few times on the ABSOLUTE contra indication of anti inflammatory (NSAID) use during and after endurance exercise - bottom line - stay away..Some guys (and gals) pop anti inflammatory and pain killers like smarties while participating in endurance events. I have never taken any pain killers or NSAID's to get through an event or a stage. My question is: are all kinds of NSAID's a big no no? What about pain killers which are safe and which should be avoided at all costs?
V12man Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 THAT'S WHY NFL FOOTBALL PLAYERS SIT IN THOSE ICE BATHS AFTER THEIR GAMES?? {sorry for shouting...too lazy to retype..} They do it more to reduce bruising and swelling than reduce muscle temps - American football is a weird game - 60 minutes of play takes about 5 hours... 45 men in a team, with only 11 on the field.... some big boys and bigger knocks happen in that game....
TopFuel Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Some NSAIDs are more selective in terms of Cox1 vs Cox2 inhibition, but the truly selective ones are not readily available. I, personally, would rather just stay away from NSAIDs. Along with the prostaglandin effects, they are also implicated in interstitial nephritis which further worsens the renal risk. As for other painkillers, I don't think that opiods or paracetamol are going to be of worthwhile benefit. They may ease the pain, but there you might be more inclined to just HTFU. I'm sure V12 will elaborate further.
V12man Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Some guys (and gals) pop anti inflammatory and pain killers like smarties while participating in endurance events. I have never taken any pain killers or NSAID's to get through an event or a stage. My question is: are all kinds of NSAID's a big no no? What about pain killers which are safe and which should be avoided at all costs? They are crazy.... I have seen 2 cyclists with near complete kidney failure because of NSAIDS. The jury is still out on if any of them are safe during endurance exercise - some are definitely worse than others, and it seems to depend on their specific mechanism of working (and some level of individual sensitivity) - there is plenty of info available if you are conversant enough with physiology/pharmacology to make head or tail of research articles - I think I have posted a few up before on the hub. You also need to be careful, because some drugs have been reclassified from NSAID to pain killer... my recommendation is that you take nothing for at least 48 hours before an event - especially a multi day event - in any case if you are carrying an injury that requires medication to manage the pain/injury - why would you even consider riding.... Sniffie and TopFuel 2
GaryvdM Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) supplements will reduce doms by 30% (source). My own anecdotal evidence: I have found that in addition to reducing doms, BCAA supplements make me much less hungry after a ride.
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