First Tokai MTB AGM

[(Deon)]

Give us a clue DJR. Is that long rant aimed at any person or group in particular? You talk in broad terms referring to "they" and "them" (both the villains and the heroes in your tale) and then ask questions of "you". Bit of a misguided and at the same time, unguided missile that whole speech..... What's the real story here?

 

Tell you what. You go back and read what you wrote about the people who have worked tirelessly within the constraints of a National Park with World Heritage Status, and recently a 7th Natural Wonder of the World with a critically sensitive Red Data extinction list, conservation driven timber harvesting exit lease due to be fulfilled by 2017, and then come back and give it another shot at answering your own questions you have posed, as for some reason the answers within DJR's text evaded only you and of course, anyone else not willing to understand.

 

Was that short enough?

Edited February 1, 2014 by Pain or shine

[Capricorn]

I think most of us have been open and frank? The only reply you've had which could really be described as making it all sound like "business as usual" was the reply you got to your questions from Pain or shine. Vince, kellyslater and I have all said it like we see it. Business faaar from usual - we want change. As for agendas? Nothing hidden - it's very simple. Our agendas all seem to have one thing in common - we want premium trails back in Tokai, not the amateurish stuff we have seen haphazardly spreading across the mountain. Now we have the opportunity to make it happen. Vince is 100% correct - this is not happening as a matter of course, but as a direct result of a group of tenacious people determined to get Tokai's trails up to the same standards as we see other trails currently being built to.

 

What is going on (and it's not beneath the surface) is that we are not happy with how things have been going at Tokai for way too long. We're not interested in hearing that "2014 is the year of talking". We feel strongly that there are more suitable candidates with far more drive and acumen who are way more likely to bring about positive, more immediate change than the incumbent lot.

 

oldflow: in that bit of aspiration there, who do you think has all the power: the crew you dont like, the crew you think can do the job, or sanparks? and furthermore, guess which one doesn't give a toss about 'the flow' of any given trail, anywhere on the planet?

Edited February 1, 2014 by Capricorn

[DJR]

Give us a clue DJR. Is that long rant aimed at any person or group in particular? You talk in broad terms referring to "they" and "them" (both the villains and the heroes in your tale) and then ask questions of "you". Bit of a misguided and at the same time, unguided missile that whole speech..... What's the real story here?

 

Hi Old Flow, re. your post above:

 

My "whole speech" was half rant and half rave and not aimed at any individual, or I would have named names.

"They" in my post refer to the downhillers group that used to be involved in Tokai, see the 2nd line, it's pretty clear.

"They" in the next paragraph refer to the bulk of the riders using Tokai (just ordinary people getting some fun exercise).

The "you" I ask questions from, are those who want my support and my vote. Again, if people come forward, I'll ask by name.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

DJR - see you at the gate?

[(Deon)]

Sanparks had oddly been the common denominator in all the previous attempts at getting "what we want". Meurant has tried, Cobus has tried, now I am trying but the truth is, these attempts are a lot like South African rugby. If a game is lost, hang the coach and start again.

 

I am however struggling to see which game it was that has attracted this attention. All the demands were met from this group to repair the DH track. Not only was permission granted to fix the track from top to bottom but these demands were exceeded by adding the lines never before included in the map which dictated what is legal or illegal trails in the park. How can you still quote incompetence? Or is your problem only with the volunteer module which has sustained this activity in the park since 1995?

 

I understand contract labour can be used and this has been allowed in future funding for Tokai. In 2011 I contacted Bennet personally and explained the constraints that would probably be imposed until 2013 when we can lift the low-level maintenance restriction, and start building based on the approvals we had negotiated.. At that stage I was hopeful but also careful not to over-promise as historically we have been duped by the hanging carrot before - and if you can't learn from other's experiences then you are actually not winning.

 

Duane, I still have the minutes you sent when I presented the plan for the rebuilt Snake trails. I consulted you and Vince and approval was given.. "Fine, just build it!" The urgency to rebuild was as a result of the downhill being used by all riders as the Snake trails were closed for nearly 8 months.

 

Just to indicate that this is business as usual, the election was always supposed to happen. Sure, an interim committee was established to meet the requirements of the broader goal, the TMMTB forum, and to take care of admin like opening bank accounts etc. A spot on this committee was open to Vince and Duane, but following an unexpected and abrupt public notification to say that they want no further dealings with Tokai due to the timeframes associated, these spots are still open to be filled.

 

So is the lack of proper representation a result of my actions? I don't know.

Is the public election required? Yes it is. It could have also just been a ratification process with the public, but if general elections are now the flavour of the month, then so be it. I welcome the public's input.

 

It remains a a real shame that the people calling for change think the way to achieve votes is to make others look bad without full disclosure of the events leading up to their dissatisfaction.

 

I am not too fussed if I am not elected, I wish the new committee luck.

[Capricorn]

It remains a a real shame that the people calling for change think the way to achieve votes is to make others look bad without full disclosure of the events leading up to their dissatisfaction.

 

 

This. This. This.

Typical hub mentality: lack of full disclosure and proper context. very juvenile approach. Like that extremely stupid poll run on facebook that forces a polarising view. again without context. Yeah sure, the poll says you can 'explain' your choice, but honestly, who the **** is going to read every single explanation, and provide an honest summary to go with the poll results? I'll bet those stupid results will be tossed up as 'proof'. what garbage. more akin to those morons throwing faeces...

Edited February 1, 2014 by Capricorn

[Guest Omega Man]

@ DJR. You're clearly aiming your post at Vince and I so I'll address it as best I can.

 

What you say is partly true about the reasons for us extracting ourselves from Tokai.

 

The building at Steilte has slowed because building in summer in Cape Town is a waste of time for the most part because everything you build turns to dust in a matter of days. There has been no souring of the relationship at all. Vince and I speak with the land owner on a regular basis and rode out there 2 weeks ago. He was riding with us and we walked a new line with him. Come winter we'll be out with the JCB's and workers digging again. There are very big plans afoot. I'm not sure where you got your information but it is completely untrue. Perhaps you should address this with them.

 

Also your statement "and their track record in that regard is a bit tarnished with ongoing illegal trails getting opened and jumps built outside of the official approved areas." is somewhat off base as Vince and I have not built on the illegal trails that you refer to. I do ride them but based on what I see on Strava so do many many many other people. I am not completely blameless when it come to illegal trail building as I have built illegally previously but not at Tokai. Once again maybe you should address the source of your information.

 

Addressing you paragraph about some disgruntled riders wanting a bigger say. I think you'll find the unhappiness around the trails extends further than just a few grumpy grey haired downhillers.

 

 

All of this back and forth is of course pointless unless you vote on it. So please. Nominate your chosen person or people. Remember there will be a 5 person committee. And come and Vote. Let's let bygones be bygones and move forward for the betterment or Tokai. Ultimately we all want the same thing which is great trails at our doorstep. If you believe the people of your choosing have the ability to deliver on that then you need to nominate and vote.

 

I'm going to end with some positive. Muerant stated in our meeting last week that Tokai must have the best trails in South Africa. And Alan Winde (spelling?) has stated publicly that he wants Cape Town to be a Top 10 must visit mountain biking destination it the world. If we choose the right people to lead us, support them as well as hold them accountable Tokai has EVERY chance to regain it's spot as the jewel in South African mountain biking.

 

See you all on the 18th.

 

Duane out.

[(Deon)]

The building at Steilte has slowed because building in summer in Cape Town is a waste of time for the most part because everything you build turns to dust in a matter of days.

 

Hold the phone! What?!

 

"building in summer in Cape Town is a waste of time for the most part because everything you build turns to dust in a matter of days" So you guys give me a few months in summer to come up with trails on par with other areas where the consistency is clay, not sand, and you base this from your "volunteer expert" as justification of your dissatisfaction? Double standards much?

[DJR]

Now, let's look at the divisions here, because that is at least part of the issue, isn't it?

 

A few years ago we had the same tiff about trails and how it was all geared for the XC (used in a derogatory way) and the downhillers got to suck from the rear teat. (Btw, I agree that there are too few DH trails).

 

Then it was decided that we would form a united front as mountain bikers, because we all ride our bikes on the mountain and love it. What a great idea. We built together and everyone were included. But of course things got very frustrating in Tokai through no fault of any mountain biker. The nature of the place, the conservationists, red tape, logging, is what caused the delays and frustration. Because of this, some decided to withdraw from the "mountain bikers united" and classify themselves as "downhillers" again. And before you could say snakebite, we had the old divisions back and worse than before.

 

Now, we have to move forward from here, and that is why I ask the following 2 questions:

 

Is this an attempt to breach that divide? Then I'm all for it and would support it with my money, my time and my sweat (as I did in the past)!

 

Or is this an attempt of the tail (downhill) to wag the dog (the greater Mtb community)? Then I'm against it!

 

Come on, it's time for frank discussion dudes.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

DJR - one thing there. Not all the DH okes are in on this. It just a single group of about 5 or 6 that are leading this campaign of lies and disinformation.

[marko35s]

DJR - one thing there. Not all the DH okes are in on this. It just a single group of about 5 or 6 that are leading this campaign of lies and disinformation.

On the bright side the moratorium on building and trail repairs means that you wont be wasting your time on pointless summer building...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

On the bright side the moratorium on building and trail repairs means that you wont be wasting your time on pointless summer building...

 

Oh, but you see, we were taking 1,000 litres of water and the remaining clay (from the 100 cube stockpile that Cape Pine just pillaged from under the noses of Parks, which was ACTUALLY meant to line the entire length of the snake trails and portions of the DH where it was needed - entry after the road gap, dh2 and dh3 etc) to ensure that we COULD build in this weather and so that there wouldn't have been any more confrontation between guys on DH3 and Vasbyt.

 

See, incompetence just follows us around, doesn't it?

Edited February 1, 2014 by cpt armpies mayhem

[Guest Omega Man]

Now, we have to move forward from here, and that is why I ask the following 2 questions:

 

Is this an attempt to breach that divide? Then I'm all for it and would support it with my money, my time and my sweat (as I did in the past)!

 

Or is this an attempt of the tail (downhill) to wag the dog (the greater Mtb community)? Then I'm against it!

 

Come on, it's time for frank discussion dudes.

I can only speak for myself here. Personal differences aside I think Deon's done a good job dealing with Sanparks and would certainly vote for him to form a part of the committee. There is also the issue of continuity. Having 5 new faces on a committee without an inside track to Sanparks is probably a bad idea. But you need to nominate him if you want him there. Here on the hub it's a pointless handbag fest.

 

No its not DH vs the rest as far as I can tell. It's about TokaiMTB becoming a representative body and Tokai having the quality (not quantity) of trail that it should have.

 

I'm also keen to get involved on the ground but I cannot in good conscience do it at this point. I've not only built at Tokai. I've built at Jonkers, Eden, Paarl, Steilte, Sire Lowreys Pass, Zevenwacght, The Glen (illegally) and even a bit in George. The guys that are driving this (myself included) are passionate about Mountain Biking and Tokai and would support any legitimate attempts to make it what it deserves to be.

 

Anyway I really am out now. Hope to see you all on the 18th.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Omega Man

[(Deon)]

This. This. This.

Typical hub mentality: lack of full disclosure and proper context. very juvenile approach. Like that extremely stupid poll run on facebook that forces a polarising view. again without context. Yeah sure, the poll says you can 'explain' your choice, but honestly, who the **** is going to read every single explanation, and provide an honest summary to go with the poll results? I'll bet those stupid results will be tossed up as 'proof'. what garbage. more akin to those morons throwing faeces...

Ha ha! Was that the folder present at the meeting with 40± statements?? I hope everyone voted "poor", any vote for "good" would have detracted from the need to improve on the current offering.

[Flowta]

DJR - one thing there. Not all the DH okes are in on this. It just a single group of about 5 or 6 that are leading this campaign of lies and disinformation.

 

LOL f=€÷&ing LOL

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

LOL f=€÷&ing LOL

 

Dude, I'm not including someone we both know from somewhere else... I'm talking about the primary instigators.

 

I know J wants good trail. As do we all. It's how the "leaders" of the group go about things that is a bit unsavoury.