First Tokai MTB AGM

[Guest Omega Man]

Who on thehub would like to be on said committee and make a difference?

 

Serriasly!

 

or

 

Who would you have on your list?

(and why?)

 

and

 

Who would be available?

I don't think we shouldn't have a "pre election" on here. Besides this forum forms a teeni tiny part of the greater riding community.

 

Just my opinion.

[Thor Buttox]

The old snake trails had trees, which makes a MASSIVE difference to how it looks and how long it lasts. If the illegal trails were not covered by trees they would be terrible by now.

its also the trees that make the rides so enjoyable. nothing like whizzing along a whisker away from your end. thrilling stuff.

Yup... not quite the same now without the trees. But precisely the reason why the new builders should be given some credit, I think, cos they are not worse trails... just the surroundings have changed with the deforestation.

[DJR]

The old snake trails had trees, which makes a MASSIVE difference to how it looks and how long it lasts. If the illegal trails were not covered by trees they would be terrible by now.

 

You said it well

[Guest OldFlow]

Just to clarify some more:

 

It would be stupid or impossible to get funding and build trails before the EMP has been finalized for the very simple reason that there is no guarantee, until then, that the trails will be allowed long term. Why would a sponsor be willing to pump big money into a build and next year it is all closed permanently because there is a critically endangered plant growing in a little patch of wetland that re-established itself after the removal of the pines. See, it is not a good idea to go about arse first when you have to work in a national park.

 

The snake trails were re-opened after logging as an interim measure under a "maintenance" clause. It had to follow the old lines more or less and had to fit in without major alterations of the slope. In my opinion, that was achieved and improved the old snake trails in the process. It doesn't make them the final or perfect end result though. That will have to wait for the EMP to be completed. New builders / old builders / volunteers, all will have to work within these restrictions. If not, they will never succeed in Tokai because, rightly, SANParks is the custodian of the mountain and they are always going to have the final say on what is acceptable from a conservation point of view. That will rightly trump everything else, including trails. Therefore, it is critical to work with SANParks. They have shown their commitment already and they understand the value of Tokai, to themselves, to riders and to greater Cape Town.

 

DJR, a lot of emphasis has been placed on the importance of the EMP. The nature of the talk surrounding it has generally made it sound like the future Tokai Trail Bible, but this is not the case. The EMP is actually a much broader overview of any trails (existing and future) within the entire Peninsula Mountain Chain. Tokai is but a small part of that big picture. The EMP addresses many things but does not go down to the level of dictating how or even where trails may or may not be actually built etc. It is more concerned that all important factors are taken into consideration, with emphasis placed on respecting land owners and negotiating and getting clear permissions. Those permissions would hinge on many factors depending on the land in question. The EMP envisages trails on (and passing through) private, council and state/public land. Each type would have its own issues and sensitivities to consider.

 

What is more important is to speed up the process whereby SANParks will decide where, when and if MTB trails will be allowed in any area of Tokai.

 

A lower level "Trail Management Agreement" specific to Tokai will need to be drawn up to address that level of detail.

[Slapsock]

Just to clarify some more:

 

It would be stupid or impossible to get funding and build trails before the EMP has been finalized for the very simple reason that there is no guarantee, until then, that the trails will be allowed long term. Why would a sponsor be willing to pump big money into a build and next year it is all closed permanently because there is a critically endangered plant growing in a little patch of wetland that re-established itself after the removal of the pines. See, it is not a good idea to go about arse first when you have to work in a national park.

 

The snake trails were re-opened after logging as an interim measure under a "maintenance" clause. It had to follow the old lines more or less and had to fit in without major alterations of the slope. In my opinion, that was achieved and improved the old snake trails in the process. It doesn't make them the final or perfect end result though. That will have to wait for the EMP to be completed. New builders / old builders / volunteers, all will have to work within these restrictions. If not, they will never succeed in Tokai because, rightly, SANParks is the custodian of the mountain and they are always going to have the final say on what is acceptable from a conservation point of view. That will rightly trump everything else, including trails. Therefore, it is critical to work with SANParks. They have shown their commitment already and they understand the value of Tokai, to themselves, to riders and to greater Cape Town.

 

Had a bit of a laugh there. They have done NOTHING to rehabilitate anything or force loggers to rahabiltate after the loggers left tokai, they will continue to let loggers pillage tokai for financial gain. There are invassive shrubs trees and bushes growing everywhere, snake eyes is like a forrest of black wottle at the bottom but we must wait for the all important EMP to be completed before doing anything and even then they might tell us we cant build trails for environemental purposes...LOL

 

Rant over

[DJR]

DJR, a lot of emphasis has been placed on the importance of the EMP. The nature of the talk surrounding it has generally made it sound like the future Tokai Trail Bible, but this is not the case. The EMP is actually a much broader overview of any trails (existing and future) within the entire Peninsula Mountain Chain. Tokai is but a small part of that big picture. The EMP addresses many things but does not go down to the level of dictating how or even where trails may or may not be actually built etc. It is more concerned that all important factors are taken into consideration, with emphasis placed on respecting land owners and negotiating and getting clear permissions. Those permissions would hinge on many factors depending on the land in question. The EMP envisages trails on (and passing through) private, council and state/public land. Each type would have its own issues and sensitivities to consider.

 

What is more important is to speed up the process whereby SANParks will decide where, when and if MTB trails will be allowed in any area of Tokai.

 

A lower level "Trail Management Agreement" specific to Tokai will need to be drawn up to address that level of detail.

 

Yup, I understand that, but you still have to get someone highish up in SANParks to sign off on the build plans, and nobody in his right mind working for Parks, will do that before the EMP is complete. It would be a severe professional risk that no conservationist would be willing to take or could be expected to take. (Imagine an engineer signing off on bridge plans allowing it to be built without knowing the underlying geology or the type of concrete to be used)

[Trillian]

I only know a handful of people and on that basis can only vote or nominate them. Would be nice to meet all involved, hear their opinions, views and plans on the matter. I'm not scared of change, but it should be for the better.

 

Perhaps a pre-meeting is in order - in a public place so we all play nice.

[Guest OldFlow]

Yup, I understand that, but you still have to get someone highish up in SANParks to sign off on the build plans, and nobody in his right mind working for Parks, will do that before the EMP is complete. It would be a severe professional risk that no conservationist would be willing to take or could be expected to take. (Imagine an engineer signing off on bridge plans allowing it to be built without knowing the underlying geology or the type of concrete to be used)

 

There is nothing in the EMP that prevents an agreement being made up now. Even a draft one would be better than none. This should ideally be drawn up sooner, rather than later. In effect, the EMP will rely on that agreement. The trail agreement does not rely on the EMP. SANParks (and any other landowner) will dictate conditions to the EMP, not the other way around.

[Guest Omega Man]

Just an aside.

 

The company I work for has offered (not really. I asked) to provide accounting services for free for TokaiMTB. There is a condition and that is that TokaiMTB register as a non profit organization.

 

The offer of accounting services is not conditional on any person or persons being included or excluded from the TokaiMTB committee. So there is no motive here. It's being offered with an open hand.

 

TokaiMTB will need an Auditor. I'm sure we can rustle up a Mountain Biker who's day job is being an Auditor.

[DJR]

Had a bit of a laugh there. They have done NOTHING to rehabilitate anything or force loggers to rahabiltate after the loggers left tokai, they will continue to let loggers pillage tokai for financial gain. There are invassive shrubs trees and bushes growing everywhere, snake eyes is like a forrest of black wottle at the bottom but we must wait for the all important EMP to be completed before doing anything and even then they might tell us we cant build trails for environemental purposes...LOL

 

Rant over

 

When all the Tokai trees are logged, I think in 2017 (correct me please all you psychics) they will not be replanted and the seed bed will be left to germinate. All Parks will do is controlled burns to help the process. The interesting thing about this is that there are some plants that have gone extinct on Table Mountain and that they hope are still present in viable seed form. This area has been under pine plantations for roughly 100 years and it is believed that the seed bed, which date from that time, cannot stay viable for much longer. The fynbos conservationists will be monitoring the place with a hawks eye to see what comes up. Imagine opening a 100 year old biological time capsule, that is what this place is to the botanists.

 

I also don't think Parks to be perfect, and I agree with you on the alien issue. It will have to be addressed.

 

In their defence, they have no control over the logging as those contracts pre-date SANParks taking over the mountain.

 

The picture is of a flowering beauty I found on Vasbyt recently. I have never before seen it in Tokai, and whatever it is, it made me think that the biologists might just be right.

 

Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but it shows why nobody can be allowed to go wild in Tokai.

[jimmy hardtail]

Can seeds really last 100 years before growing? That is amazing.

[DJR]

Can seeds really last 100 years before growing? That is amazing.

 

Every indigenous thing you see growing on Vasbyt, grew from seed deposited there over a 100 years ago. Amazing.

[GoLefty!!]

I'd like to know who the nom de plumes are in real life if they are being nominated.

 

in the interests of the openess, transparency and general hippiniss of it all

[Guest OldFlow]

I'd like to know who the nom de plumes are in real life if they are being nominated.

 

in the interests of the openess, transparency and general hippiniss of it all

 

Only REAL people allowed! ;-)

[GoLefty!!]

cant run a trail from a blog..

[Lone_Ranger]

Just an aside.

 

The company I work for has offered (not really. I asked) to provide accounting services for free for TokaiMTB. There is a condition and that is that TokaiMTB register as a non profit organization.

 

The offer of accounting services is not conditional on any person or persons being included or excluded from the TokaiMTB committee. So there is no motive here. It's being offered with an open hand.

 

TokaiMTB will need an Auditor. I'm sure we can rustle up a Mountain Biker who's day job is being an Auditor.

 

Fully agree with TokaiMTB registering as a NPO. You're much more likely to get corporate sponsors if you can show you've gone throught the effort to get registered.