Cairns World Cup #2

[Matt Lochner]

 

 

Mik's first course preview made the course look pretty damn cool. My grip is with coverage, at Cairns and Cascades-it feels like they arent showing enough of the track and the cooler features...the only footage of the woops was that spectator nearly ending himself. I'm sure RB has their challenges when it comes to coverage but I really think they should show more of the course, even if it means it's not live racing-or maybe give the top guys 5 min gaps?

Ja, at Pietermaritzburg it was almost is Haibo, the pedally sector, jugs big one and some of the top off the course didn't exist. Would be cool if we saw everything as often we only see stuff on YouTube later.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Matt Lochner

[Stretch]

just wait dudes...when they built that cable car to mweni..they can use the cable car to get up to lesotho and then bomb it down the escarpment....at some point they will pass through a dagga plantation...put a jump there and call it "high five"

[Matt Lochner]

just wait dudes...when they built that cable car to mweni..they can use the cable car to get up to lesotho and then bomb it down the escarpment....at some point they will pass through a dagga plantation...put a jump there and call it "high five"

Great idea, can I help build...

[kosmonooit]

Re: RB coverage, Camera coverage in Cairns was tricky, the layout of the course, in and out of dense forest, access, ... doing what they did was great achievement, I reckon. And its free so muchas gracias to them.

 

They did a short programme last year in Norway on what it takes to set up, it was large. What I think will be a game-changer is having FPV cams on the bikes, the tech is here, its just a matter of time.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Ja, at Pietermaritzburg it was almost is Haibo, the pedally sector, jugs big one and some of the top off the course didn't exist. Would be cool if we saw everything as often we only see stuff on YouTube later.

 

Yeah. Agreed. 5 minute gaps may help - or, maybe, a live event but later a delayed, full broadcast with a larger focus on each rider's run, made up from Go Pro & normal TV coverage material?

[Stretch]

Re: RB coverage, Camera coverage in Cairns was tricky, the layout of the course, in and out of dense forest, access, ... doing what they did was great achievement, I reckon. And its free so muchas gracias to them.

 

They did a short programme last year in Norway on what it takes to set up, it was large. What I think will be a game-changer is having FPV cams on the bikes, the tech is here, its just a matter of time.

 

Ja but why show 5 angles of the pedal section into the finish?

 

They had a camera at the rock garden and at alien tree..why not show everyone going through that?

 

And what about a camera at the whoops section - that looked awesome to spectate and I am sure it would not have been difficult to get one there

 

Edit: did you notice almost everyone had a helmet cam this week? - obviously since pmb all the teams have said screw it - we want head cams too

Edited April 28, 2014 by Stretch

[marko35s]

Adam Brayton's leg... uurgggh..

 

Tis but a scratch...

[Capricorn]

Ja but why show 5 angles of the pedal section into the finish?

 

They had a camera at the rock garden and at alien tree..why not show everyone going through that?

 

And what about a camera at the whoops section - that looked awesome to spectate and I am sure it would not have been difficult to get one there

 

Edit: did you notice almost everyone had a helmet cam this week? - obviously since pmb all the teams have said screw it - we want head cams too

 

+1 on the helmet cam story! Was especially surprised at the race footage from quite a few riders. wonder what's the story there ito UCI rules? I know cams are near-completely banned from the BDS races in the UK, except under certain circumstances, which IMO, smacks of a monopoly on race footage. anyway

 

and +1 on the woops section. From the trackside spectator footage, that section looked beastly! The racers were going full moto there it was awesome to watch!

and why oh why was the only camera at the second/main rock garden right at the top?? Some of the highlights packages showing footage shot from the bottom would've been more impressive for the viewers. that rock garden was gnarly!

[nigelhicks]

I apologize to Nigel in advance.

 

I Really Really Really think that World World Cup DH races should not involve shuttles and trailers. It's the pinnacle of the sport FFS.

 

There's PLENTY of ski lift infrastructure in the world. Even in the Southern Hemisphere. The UCI should have a no lift no race rule for DH. Yes I know that would rule out PMB.

 

Why was the race not held at Thredbo? There's an existing bike park there. With a Ski lift. I just don't get it. Maybe I've romanticized lift access mountain biking too much but really. 4x4's in the jungle??? It's just stupid. And I'll bet you 99% of World Cup Pro's would agree.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139190/3263454-impliedfacepalm.jpg

[nigelhicks]

I apologize to Nigel in advance.

 

I Really Really Really think that World World Cup DH races should not involve shuttles and trailers. It's the pinnacle of the sport FFS.

 

There's PLENTY of ski lift infrastructure in the world. Even in the Southern Hemisphere. The UCI should have a no lift no race rule for DH. Yes I know that would rule out PMB.

 

Why was the race not held at Thredbo? There's an existing bike park there. With a Ski lift. I just don't get it. Maybe I've romanticized lift access mountain biking too much but really. 4x4's in the jungle??? It's just stupid. And I'll bet you 99% of World Cup Pro's would agree.

 

Duane - stop being like a 14 year old pinkbike columnist and think about it for a second. ...

 

YES it would be great to have all the events at ski-assisted bike parks etc. Everyone would love it. But this is not the reality.

 

Can you explain why Val di Sole, Maribor and Schladming are not on the UCI calendar but are hosting IXS races? ... NO? ... Ok i will explain (like i have done to all the pinkbike complainers)

 

All events go out to tender with the initial upfront fee payable to bid for an event being in the (i think) 300 000 EURO range ... As most events that are hosted at Ski Resorts are NOT funded by local government (as PMB and i believe Cairns were) it is expensive for the resort to pay for the hosting rights.

 

On top of this the organisers need to cover the TV costs infrastructure costs and other UCI costs that will be incurred. As this is a Global Tour.

Needless to say venues like Val Di Sole, Schladming and Windham have all in the past stated to the UCI at one point or another that they dont have the cash to host the events.

 

So then who has the cash to bid?

So who then Bids?

If you dont bid how can the UCI choose you?

 

SO .....

Your complaint is invalid for a number of reasons.

 

1. the shuttle access at Cairns was faster than most of the skilift assisted access events

2. in some instances even PMB is on a par with Fort Bill's access dependant on the queue for the lift system.

3. In the past there have been a number of shuttle assisted venues - Canberra, La Bresse to name 2.

4. Many of the bike parks with ski lifts are exactly that - bike parks - which the UCI want to try and avoid as they are looking for less groomed tracks

5. (and this is the main one) the UCI are limited to choosing from those venues that bid for an event. No bid = you cant have an event. The UCI cant just say to Threadbo "we have an event coming to AUZ - here you organise it" ... it just doesnt work that way!

 

So then before you say "Yes but look at the IXS and how good their venues are" ... remember that the IXS is a Euro Cup (the equivalent of which is our African Continental Champs) ... So there is far less infrastructure that is required to host these events. So therefore the series can utilise venues that may not have the funds to host a World Level event.

 

SO before trying to make up your own rules for the UCI think of the issues that they face first.

 

There are big issues that no one bids ... so what can they do?

[Matt Lochner]

 

 

Duane - stop being like a 14 year old pinkbike columnist and think about it for a second. ...

 

YES it would be great to have all the events at ski-assisted bike parks etc. Everyone could love it. But this is not the reality.

 

Can you explain why Val di Sole, Maribor and Schladming are not on the UCI calendar but are hosting IXS races? ... NO? ... Ok i will explain (like i have done to all the pinkbike complainers)

 

All events go out to tender with the initial upfront fee payable to bid for an event being in the (i think) 300 000 EURO range ... As most events that are hosted at Ski Resorts are NOT funded by local government (as PMB and i believe Cairns were) it is expensive for the resort to pay for the hosting rights.

 

On top of this the organisers need to cover the TV costs infrastructure costs and other UCI costs that will be incurred. As this is a Global Tour.

Needless to say venues like Val Di Sole, Schladming and Windham have all in the past stated to the UCI at one point or another that they dont have the cash to host the events.

 

So then who has the cash to bid?

So who then Bids?

If you dont bid how can the UCI choose you?

 

SO .....

Your complaint is invalid for a number of reasons.

 

1. the shuttle access at Cairns was faster than most of the skilift assisted access events

2. in some instances even PMB is on a par with Fort Bill's access dependant on the queue for the lift system.

3. In the past there have been a number of shuttle assisted venues - Canberra, La Bresse to name 2.

4. Many of the bike parks with ski lifts are exactly that - bike parks - which the UCI want to try and avoid as they are looking for less groomed tracks

5. (and this is the main one) the UCI are limited to choosing from those venues that bid for an event. No bid = you cant have an event. The UCI cant just say to Threadbo "we have an event coming to AUZ - here you organise it" ... it just doesnt work that way!

 

So then before you say "Yes but look at the IXS and how good their venues are" ... remember that the IXS is a Euro Cup (the equivalent of which is our African Continental Champs) ... So there is far less infrastructure that is required to host these events. So therefore the series can utilise venues that may not have the funds to host a World Level event.

 

SO before trying to make up your own rules for the UCI think of the issues that they face first.

 

There are big issues that no one bids ... so what can they do?

Finally it's over

[nigelhicks]

I do. Totally.

 

But I also want the best athletes in the sport to do their thing on tracks that drop 1000m in 4km in the best possible locations. And not load their bikes onto trailers to be carted up a jeep track when there are better locations with infrastructure that's 1000 times better.

 

Ok again Duane - have you looked at the profiles of all the world cup tracks or IXS tracks that are currently in use? NONE of them are 1000m elevation drop in 4km ...

 

Mont St Anne - 600m descent in 3km

Fort Bill - 580m in 3km

Windham - 400m in 2km

PMB - 414m in 3km

Cairns - 320m in 2km

Leogang - 472m in 2.2km

 

Champery - 630m in 2km

Maribor - 450m in 1.7km

 

The UCI rules state that a track needs to be :

. Minimum Maximum

Course length 1500 m 3500 m

Duration of the event 2 minutes 5 minutes

 

So to have a 1000m drop in 4km would probably take more than 5minutes duration - which is too long for todays standards

[nigelhicks]

OK - CAMERA ANGLES AND HELMET CAMS!

 

Camera is a HUGE issue at World Cup events.

 

It is impossible to capture an entire run as in most instances there are 3 riders on track at one time.

So what happens in most cases is as follows

 

Camera 1 to 4

Either Pre-recorded from Qualification or - what RB have been doing lately since PMB is time-delaying live feed.

 

So the camera films the sections of the start and Cloud 9 and holds the images as pre-record

 

Then there is a live delay cam at Dr Evil and the Tables which is posponed for 40seconds till airing (to compensate for the pedal section) - this is then added to the live feed - the live feed can only occur within the lower minute of the track as the riders are generally at 1 minute intervals ... so this gives 20 sec of pre-record feed and 40 sec of live feed.

 

At 3 minute intervals this allows for extra cameras for pre-record and live feed to be utiliised as you would see in the RB feed.

 

RB actually always have 13 cameras on track but these are broken down to include one Jib-boom ... 1 slow mo cam .. and one finish arena hand held - leaving 10 cameras on track to cover the start, pre-record and live feed. So in all instances the main clump of cameras are at the bottom of the track.

 

Going to 5 minute gaps still wouldnt really help as it would still need more cameras as well as taking a HELL of a lot longer to film and air - remember that even live streaming costs money - LOTS of money!

 

 

So to Helmet cams

 

These are being implimented by RB to get to similar things like supercross have with live feed from onboard cameras -

 

There will be 3 or 4 designated Go-pro pilots who will ride with go-pros during their runs that RB can then patch into to use as live-feed from course - the riders are given the opportunity and are under no obligation to use the cameras if they dont want to. But this is a step in the right direction IMO

[patches]

All downhill is fun to watch. No matter where it is!

 

Seriously, I can't think of many sports as exciting! Riders with insane skills, hurling themselves down a hill with huge chances of offing themselves. Furthermore the format of "fastest rider goes down last" and the whole hot-seat thing. It can't get more nail-biting than that! Many other forms of racing are like a precession with a bit of overtaking here and there. Not DH.

 

So who cares where it's held. Who cares how they get up the hill (because we don't have to watch that boring part).

 

Just give me fast riders on tracks that would make me poop myself, show it on TV/online, and I for one am happy!

[MockTurtle]

All downhill is fun to watch. No matter where it is!

 

Seriously, I can't think of many sports as exciting! Riders with insane skills, hurling themselves down a hill with huge chances of offing themselves. Furthermore the format of "fastest rider goes down last" and the whole hot-seat thing. It can't get more nail-biting than that! Many other forms of racing are like a precession with a bit of overtaking here and there. Not DH.

 

So who cares where it's held. Who cares how they get up the hill (because we don't have to watch that boring part).

 

Just give me fast riders on tracks that would make me poop myself, show it on TV/online, and I for one am happy!

+1000. i'm not one who watches DH racing because i'm fascinated by the "cool ski lifts"

and i really don't see how the lack of it cheapens the sport in anyway?

actually for me the more inaccessible and exotic venues are more interesting...

prime example of how mtb-ing is slowly turning into the golf. next thing you know people will be demanding perfectly-manicured grass on the trails, water features, licensed clubhouses and personal mechanics.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

+1000. i'm not one who watches DH racing because i'm fascinated by the "cool ski lifts"

and i really don't see how the lack of it cheapens the sport in anyway?

actually for me the more inaccessible and exotic venues are more interesting...

prime example of how mtb-ing is slowly turning into the golf. next thing you know people will be demanding perfectly-manicured grass on the trails, water features, licensed clubhouses and personal mechanics.

 

EXACTLY! Pretty much exactly the reason I want to do teh inca trail in south america. It's as accessible as a convent girl in the middle of term, but it's a challenge of note to complete the thing, and just getting there...