Rogue Riding

[SeaBee]

Same question from my side.

 

We went to Paul Cluver over the weekend and rode. Were told how to get in by security, but when we got there, nobody was around to receive our money. So for the entire 4 hours we rode, we rode "unlisensed" and could have been seen as trespassers. So, we looked like a rogue rider to everybody on the day, yet with no intention to be rogue. We paid upon finishing - I was busy packing the bikes and my buddy went to pay before I was done with the first bike. We came there fully intending to pay, yet ended up riding as rogue riders (for the time we rode). Same with Jonkers, where we often pitch up before gates open and pay afterwards.

 

And I fully agree with the this, rogue riders should be punished. I have my Rheboks and my Bains trail annual permits, so I support "the cause" fully. So... how do they decide who is rogue and who not in cases like this?! Likewise the above-mentioned Meerendal honesty box situation. He deposits funds, gets no proof, goes for a ride and halfway through the ride somebody (potentially) tells him he doesn't belong there...

 

That's my "frustration" as a non-rogue rider... I very often can be seen as a rogue, with absolutely no intention to be one.

[Oufy MTB (Roadie)]

Tokai, if you there before 7am most times you can ride for free because the fees office and gate man did not take up station. I'm sure most people don't pay on their way down. I got an annual permit and was probably only asked once last year because all my riding is starting in the dark

[MoreTrails]

I think the initial post from W2W was probably indicating riders crossing the farms on their route (possibly) where there are no trails apart from the race route - so that is easy to define and one will stick out like balls on a dog if seen on the farm with your fiets.

 

As for the rogue riding on a farm with designated trails - agreed, its tricky with the honesty box system or a system where there is no one to receive the funds / issue a voucher.

I suppose it is up to us to make the effort to make sure we are not taking the piss out of the situation / organisation. Impress on your mates to pay as well and to be an honest rider.

 

Last but not least, there is no reason for us to be shirty with a landowner because "we have been riding these trails for years!". He has all the power in the situation, so being humble from our side is key.

[Flowta]

Do you have to pay to ride on public routes, or are these private routes that are open to a paying public.

 

 

I believe it refers to the latter

[Hellwarp]

SeaBee. Your frustration is justified but there is no alternative to a "pay before you play" system as the rider needs to indemnify the landowner. Yes the landowner should fascilitate this by providing an entry point and have the required documentation available for a rider to do so. But people who man such an entry point phone in sick or don't pitch and you have the problem you experienced.

However, as a rider you cannot then say oh well I'm going to ride and pay later because as you quite rightly mention " So for the entire 4 hours we rode, we rode "unlisensed" and could have been seen as trespassers".

For cases like that there should be an alternative, question is what though, something all trail operators grapple with. Thats why annual permits and bikeboards are the preffered form of trail access for trail owners. Day passes are difficult to manage and can lead to, like in your case, frustration for riders.

Never understood "honesty box" arrangements, how does the rider indemnify the landowner ? Does the rider sign in a register which includes indemnity ?

As you can see, there's actually more to what otherwise may seem straight forward.

[DJR]

If you are caught on a property or in an area where no riding is allowed and where you could not possibly have ended up by mistake, I think it is justified for the landowner to prosecute you for trespassing.

 

If you are caught riding in an area where you are allowed to ride, but you could not pay because of something beyond your control, I think the landowner should be a bit more understanding. Most will just drop it if you are polite. However, if you become aggressive or abusive, then I would encourage him to prosecute you, no matter how sad your story.

 

Mostly this is about manners and respect, and sadly, both are in short supply.

[DieVlieg]

I agree mostly with the sentiment of anti trespassing but off late I have seen an increase in land owners not having any fencing. If there is no boundaries then it is difficult to establish where you are allowed to be or not to be. For instance the western teretories of PTA/ Northen territories of JHB. I mostly do not know where I am supposed to be. Sometimes a district road ends and just becomes a tweespoor up a lovely koppie. Between the decisions of safety, returning back to tarr I came from 5km back or going for it, sometimes I just do not know whether I am allowed to or not as there is no gate and no fence.

 

Sometimes I just follow wheel tracks and see where I end up. But purposely crossing boundaries are uit soos beskuit.

[nicds]

Contermans has the best honesty box system I've come across. There are clear signs indicating where the honesty box is located. You fill in the form (which includes signing the indemnity) take the top copy for yourself and a duplicate is left behind in the book. Then pop your moola in the box.

 

I've also had issues when riding early at Meerendal.

 

Would be great to pay a higher annual fee and include more trails in the membership. Perhaps have the option to choose 5 Trails for your annual fee. But that's totally me dreaming up an idea without considering the realities of the logistics involved behind the scenes. Would require a lot of buy in by land owners and a fair system to distribute the funds.

[slabs]

"the fuss" is quite simple really and justified. I'm a landowner and yes, while I do not own the earth the farm belongs to me. iow private property. But that aside.

For you to ride on my property you need to indemnify me in the case of you falling off your bike and injuring yourself. Otherwise I'm at risk of public liability and its a risk I'm not willing to take on.

It costs money to build and maintain trails.

Trails need to be managed.

So as a result riders need to purchase a permit to indemnify the landowners and to contribute toward maintaining the trails and the enviroment they're in.

Take my word for it, there's very little "benefit" for the landowner.

 

Will never understand the indemnifying part. If you there illegally you have no rights.....

 

As far as I am concerned most mtbers have gone rogue at some stage, but the numbers are now too big to warrant it. The problem is that a few riders will never understand any form of diplomacy and are already causing the many problems for the others that enjoy the trails. There are already a few trails where farmers have removed access due to some idiots disrespecting the land they ride over.

 

Unfortunately time has come to address this to the benefit of the majority.

[JA-Q001]

Being a roadie and all (although I dont like lables), where you get on your bike, go out the gate and you are free to go wherever you want (mostly), I find it sad that the mtb scene is so restrictive. I take for example, if you dont want to pay, ride gravel roads or sidewalks.

 

I have buildt xc tracks and single track before, so I know how much work it is, so I understand that the traibuilders need to be paid and that its hard work and I do understand the indemnity thing, but isnt there a way that government (I know, I know, that word is worse that swearing) can help everyone? Kind of like a tax rebate if you have trails on your property and have proof of the indemnity forms, so that some of these areas are more open to all.

 

All I mean is that if you are a beginner, with little funds to even buy the mtb, it does get expensive to go to all the parks and that can be very discouraging for people to even start.

Edited May 21, 2014 by JA-Q001

[straatvark]

The sooner someone is prosecuted the better.

 

If there is a honesty system, take video/photo of you entering money/form or of the lack of security etc.

 

I would take day licenses away.

 

Only sell bike boards: It would be possible to include the year + month as part of the board number. that way it can:

a) Using the joining year + month can then indicate when it should expire.

b) Or the number can indicate the expire year + month - with the advantage that short term boards can be sold while the 'validating' of short and long term members is the same. Also you can sell one month boards instead of day licences.

 

There is a bit of pain around the boards printing etc, but might be an idea...

Edited May 21, 2014 by straatvark

[Matt Lochner]

There are a couple of trails where you can ride for free. For eg. Coetzenburg G spot the willowbridge slammer and Majik forest

[Slowbee]

The solution is simple really - but not so easy to get going. The table mountain biking okes (and okette's) will know.

 

There should be a "club", an oversight body. Pay a yearly fee, ride with a board. If you dont have a board, you are rogue. Easy to set up like wild card system. Certain coloured boards are for certain areas and others for the larger area. If you want to ride for a day, you have to get permits in advance and at hefty prices. Just like SANparks.

 

ja, ja, there will be issues, but it solves ALOT of problems. I mean really a Jonkers family permit is R300 for a year. Just buy the blinken permit, stop trying to arrive so early (or late for a matter of fact) so you dont have to pay at the gate

 

You want to ride the trails - you pay the fee. You want to ride the free trails you dont pay a fee. Simple.

[Flowta]

Contermans has the best honesty box system I've come across. There are clear signs indicating where the honesty box is located. You fill in the form (which includes signing the indemnity) take the top copy for yourself and a duplicate is left behind in the book. Then pop your moola in the box.

 

I've also had issues when riding early at Meerendal.

 

Would be great to pay a higher annual fee and include more trails in the membership. Perhaps have the option to choose 5 Trails for your annual fee. But that's totally me dreaming up an idea without considering the realities of the logistics involved behind the scenes. Would require a lot of buy in by land owners and a fair system to distribute the funds.

 

You can ride a lot of trails with the Tygerbergmtb membership including Meerendal and Contermanskloof

[Omar]

The solution is simple really - but not so easy to get going. The table mountain biking okes (and okette's) will know.

 

There should be a "club", an oversight body. Pay a yearly fee, ride with a board. If you dont have a board, you are rogue. Easy to set up like wild card system. Certain coloured boards are for certain areas and others for the larger area. If you want to ride for a day, you have to get permits in advance and at hefty prices. Just like SANparks.

 

ja, ja, there will be issues, but it solves ALOT of problems. I mean really a Jonkers family permit is R300 for a year. Just buy the blinken permit, stop trying to arrive so early (or late for a matter of fact) so you dont have to pay at the gate

 

You want to ride the trails - you pay the fee. You want to ride the free trails you dont pay a fee. Simple.

you have one in the CSA - if all cyclist were licensed with the csa and clearly identifiable with a bike board for e.g. then any mtb'er found on a trail without one may be prosecuted for trespassing. if licensed and caught on pvt land then the mtb'er could be banned from competing. but hey ppa got their judgement.

[Mr X]

This should have happened long ago. There are MANY rogue riders, it is not only a few.

 

These landowners that agreed to prosecute are extremely generous to do so - to take on legal action and the associated cost and effort with it - if it was me (and I assume most landowners would do the same) I would just ban mtb riding on my land. We should be grateful for these landowners for not banning all mtb riders.