Jonkershoek Closure

[Slowbee]

Lets get a grip of the fundamentals:

 

- What the Coffee Shop is doing is "legal". That implies they have lease on their premises and permission to erect signage.

 

- Who/what is "TMM"? Are they a registered business with a Memorandum of Incorporation and Directors etc. Or are they a club with a Constitution, Committee and Membership?

 

- Does TMM have a contract with the land owners to maintain and build trails? If there is a contact, does it give TMM exclusive rights to do this, what is the period of the contract, and what are the consequences if TMM fails to perform?

 

- If there is no contract, on what basis does TMM have a right to close trails?

 

- There is no shortage of cash to maintain trails. Thus any fund raising effort would be futile.

 

Clearly this is an issue between two cycle brands. The Coffee Shop appear to have legal signage. Does Specialized feel they have exclusivity on the rights to maintain and build trails on the site? Or why don't they just stand back and let somebody else do it?

 

Let's say someone has a bad crash at Jonkershoek tomorrow. Then the unfortunate rider might claim that the crash was caused by the failure of TMM to maintain the trails, despite the fact that they have adequate funds available to do this, as has just been acknowledged on a public forum. Who gets sued? TMM, Specialized, Cape Pine, or the Coffee Shop?

 

I only see losers here, not winners. Whoever gets sued, the looses will be guys like us who enjoy cycling. Perhaps there is just too much money going into cycling at the moment, and not enough common sense.

 

the dude, or dudette (or a mix of everything in between to be politically correct) seems to know what they are on about.

[tunariaan]

Die vraag is verkoop die coffee shop goeie koffie?...

[SuperDooperSnooper]

I've always driven past Ride In (unaware of its existence) and also just had coffee and a bite at the JH Café. Food is ok but coffee a bit iffy, but staff have always been friendly. I've noticed the Scott branding and rental bikes on the last few occasions, but was more aware of the Spez-branded signs on the trail (still sometimes manage to get lost so need to look at the signs A LOT). All just seemed part of usual marketing strategies. For a "volunteer group" to close down trails to protect/spite the rest of us riders just because they are a bit p!&&ed off about a competing brand's signage ( who dared to erect it without contributing to TMM) I find extremely immature.

In our very market-orientated era surely there must be a better way to go about this than "if you don't do as I like, I don't wanna play anymore" attitude.

 

[Off_da_brakes]

The trails in Jonkershoek are about to be closed down!!!!!!!

 

This is a statement of fact!!!!! NO JOKE!!!!!!

 

Background:

When riding at Jonkershoek you pay at the gate for a day permit or you buy an annual permit. This permit gives you access to Jonkershoek and has NOTHING to do with the MTB trails. Not a single cent of this goes towards trail building and / or maintenance. NOT A SINGLE CENT!!!!! Cape Pine is not interested in the MTB trails and has no problem with shutting it down. The income derived from gate fees is accidental and does NOT form part of their business plan.

 

After the sorry state of the trails following the fires a few years ago a Trail Maintenance Movement (TMM) was created by a few concerning cyclist. They pumped huge amounts of their own money into the project. Specialized also contributed thousands and put signboards up to mark the various trails. On these boards they printed a very low key Specialized logo.

 

The movement is still strong and has a substantial slush fund available for trail maintenance.

 

Issues:

 

We as a group felt that there are people and businesses riding on the back of our effort without contributing a single cent towards the initiative.

 

The coffee shop owner was given a few bicycles by a local cycle shop at the beginning of 2014. They proceeded to brand the coffee shop and entrance to Jonkershoek with huge Scott branding, in effect ambushing the effort put in by the TMM. Jonkerhoek now looks like Scott Park and you might be forgiven for thinking that Scott diversified from bicycles into the growth of coffee beans and supply of roasted coffee.

 

Our request was simple: Please take down all branding or at the very least match the contribution of already branded contributors. The effort to set up meetings with the coffee shop owners was unsuccessful and Scott’s attitude is simply that they have a right to this, which they legally have but morally it stinks.

 

Their branding and attitude towards TMM resulted in a shutdown of all maintenance. This is clear from the sorry state of some of the trails.

 

WE ARE NOW PROCEEDING WITH THE PHYSICAL CLOSURE OF SOME OF THE TRAILS AS WE ARE NOT PREPARED TO FACE POSSIBLE LEGAL ACTION FOR INJURIES SUSTAINED BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF MAINTENANCE ON THE TRAILS.

 

Our solution,

 

We feel that if you don’t contribute towards the effort you have no moral right to put your branding all over the entrance – if you match branded contributors’ efforts then you can. We are not prepared to pay towards corporate SA’s marketing efforts.

 

Specialized has agreed to make Jonkers a brand free zone – this is , and despite their huge contribution, our suggestion is to make this a brand free zone.

 

This will ensure that the much needed maintenance will go ahead and that the trails will remain open for a long time to come.

 

What you can do:

Put pressure on the people involved to remove all branding and request the owner of the coffee shop to attend the TMM meetings.

Think you've achieved the opposite of what you intended. You've alienated the very community you sought support from. #epicfail

 

[grego12]

I saw the pic come through on twitter this week.. I see your problem but is it really your jurisdiction over what the cafe owner may or may not present. Maybe tell us what steps you've taken to remedy the situation. As I see it so far, the cafe owner has made a move to attract an alternative income through bike rentals. I am only assuming that in return he has offered extensive branding to Scott for the service. Hardly a case for trail closure in objection, certainly not without amicably finding a solution.

 

The threat sounds like it is more to TMM than to the trails.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Spez probably pulling funding due the brand ambushing and TMM now out of pocket. Funny though, I never heard Scott complaining when all the Spez signs started popping up on Jonkershoek trails. Riders may have assumed that all the trails in JH were provided by Spez.

[The Search]

Hate all this politics. All this comes back to money. Go and ride your bike and suck in the fresh air. Jonkers will always be there with or without the trails. Doing the contour roads for last 15years. Hikers and runners also enjoy the place.

 

Always felt a little bit ripped off by the coffee shop.

[River Rat]

This thread is proof that Spez make better bikes and kit while Scott make better signs and coffee! Enjoy your ride this morning wherever you are, but first I am going to get myself some scoffee.

[DJR]

This thread is proof that Spez make better bikes and kit while Scott make better signs and coffee! Enjoy your ride this morning wherever you are, but first I am going to get myself some scoffee.

 

The world revolves around coffee Now Jonkershoek is just falling in with the natural order of things.

[Iwan Kemp]

Die vraag is verkoop die coffee shop goeie koffie?...

 

That'll depend on how much it rained while you were (legally) riding trails (that were closed in a hissy fit). It's a best average coffee. But the vibe of the tea garden (brought to you by Scott) and hanging with your mates and family post ride comparing scars more than make up for it.

 

Service is probably the worst you will find anywhere, though. And on top of that it's a bit of Ordering Roulette. Order what you want then share the excitement and thrill of "just what will I get this time" with your riding mates and family. Your food and drinks order brought to you by Scott*.

 

* Actual name of the waiter and in no way associated with the signboards.

[Iwan Kemp]

Seriously though: It goes from VERY busy to there are some people there in a very short space of time and I can only imagine it must be difficult for them to have enough staff there for when it's crowded, but not too much to drain them dry when there are only a couple of people sitting there.

 

Coffee there is not gourmet, but it genuinely is lekker hanging with your mates right there were you rode rather than having to load up, drive to town, look for parking and then have a nice cup of coffee only to discover when you get to your car that your bike's been stolen.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Iwan Kemp

[Flowta]

Seriously though: It goes from VERY busy to there are some people there in a very short space of time and I can only imagine it must be difficult for them to have enough staff there for when it's crowded, but not too much to drain them dry when there are only a couple of people sitting there.

 

Coffee there is not gourmet, but it genuinely is lekker hanging with your mates right there were you rode rather than having to load up, drive to town, look for parking and then have a nice cup of coffee only to discover when you get to your car that your bike's been stolen.

 

That's why Ride Inn is doing so well. Some people even park there and ride up

[Iwan Kemp]

That's why Ride Inn is doing so well. Some people even park there and ride up

 

Will give it a go, thanks. Have been threatening for a while now

Edited May 24, 2014 by Iwan Kemp

[Pappa Bear]

Trailmansam,

 

So if I understand the situation correctly:

1) TMM does alot of trailmaintenance in Jonkers

2) TMM receives alot of funding from Spez for this

3) Spez has advertisment on the trails via the trail markers

4). Spez is now pissed because Scott are advertising at the coffe shop

5). Spez is now treathening TMM by withholding funds

6). TMM is now threatening the larger Jonkershoek MTB faternity with closure of trails if the coffee shop doesn't remove the signs

 

What I think:

1) TMM grow some balls and tell Spez to F of and get some diffrent contributers - try Scott they seems to be interrested

2) Jonkers doesn't belong to Spez despite them believing so - go check all the youtube videos with heavy spez and jonkers branding

3) TMM and Spez know there is now legal action that can be taken agains the coffee shop otherwise they would have done so, so now they are threatening us and want us to take their fight up with the coffee shop.....

4). We should tell the coffee shop to get better coffee, service and add some smiles

5)Somebody in TMM mismanaged the Jonkers hoek portifolio and over promissed to Spez, maybe exclusivity was mentioned?

6). TMM failed to manage the trails since we are now looking at trail closures due to politics

7). We should call for the head of the person in TMM that is responsabil for this.

 

Last though.......... Next time please use some tact, your brain and vaseline.

 

Pappa Bear

[Guest Omega Man]

I must say I feel different to what I read as the general consensus on here.

 

I think putting this up on this forum was a mistake by the OP. And threatening the closure of the trails is perhaps not the wisest of ways to go about communicating their dissatisfaction.

 

But I do think that the people who put the money into the trails and paid MANY MANY THOUSANDS of Rands towards the trails for ZERO income do deserve a little respect from us. Let's not forget that Spec brought Hylton Turvey down to build the double black with Bennet. Those trails are amazing and they don't just appear out of thin air. In my opinion the cafe buying Scott rental bikes and allowing/putting up Scott branding really is a case of biting the hand that feeds you.

 

The current influx of riders to the area is a direct result of the amazing quality and quantity of trail in that valley. That has a direct influence on the income of that little restaurant. Having Scott rather than Spec bikes for rent is a big slap in the face of the people who pay for the trails.

 

I am powerless in this situation except for the power of my wallet and from here on out I'll be going to ride in for my post ride coffee. OK Beer!

 

Lastly. If you want to play dirty with the Cafe do a deal with Ride In that anyone with a permit gets a coffee for R5. That will p1ss in the cafe's tea for sure.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Omega Man

[Pappa Bear]

I must say I feel different to what I read as the general consensus on here.

 

I think putting this up on this forum was a mistake by the OP. And threatening the closure of the trails is perhaps not the wisest of ways to go about communicating their dissatisfaction.

 

But I do think that the people who put the money into the trails and paid MANY MANY THOUSANDS of Rands towards the trails for ZERO income do deserve a little respect from us. Let's not forget that Spec brought Hylton Turvey down to build the double black with Bennet. Those trails are amazing and they don't just appear out of thin air. In my opinion the cafe buying Scott rental bikes and allowing/putting up Scott branding really is a case of biting the hand that feeds you.

 

The current influx of riders to the area is a direct result of the amazing quality and quantity of trail in that valley. That has a direct influence on the income of that little restaurant. Having Scott rather than Spec bikes for rent is a big slap in the face of the people who

 

pay for the trails.

 

I am powerless in this situation except for the power of my wallet and from here on out I'll be going to ride in for my post ride coffee. OK Beer!

 

Lastly. If you want to play dirty with the Cafe do a deal with Ride In that anyone with a permit gets a coffee for R5. That will p1ss in the cafe's tea for sure.

 

Once again all of us have only one side of the story......

 

Maybe the coffee shop got a better deal from scott than spez? Maybe spez wanted an arm and a leg for their bikes and scott said you can have ours for free..... i don't know.

 

But I agree that this forum is poor form from the OP

 

 

[Guest Omega Man]

Once again all of us have only one side of the story......

 

Maybe the coffee shop got a better deal from scott than spez? Maybe spez wanted an arm and a leg for their bikes and scott said you can have ours for free..... i don't know.

 

But I agree that this forum is poor form from the OP

Ja. True. Anyways I hope the threats of trail closures are empty. cos that place is just amazing.