Tubehunter Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 My ex-Gf was a pharmacist....or better yet, i swam in the pharmacy dating pool whilst at varsity... they do not handle capsules etc. witht their hands...especially gelatin ones that will melt from warm hands...they use a spatula type of thingie to count the pills /capsules...so where did the contimination come from..?? <#Conspiracy_hour> Read the report! The pharmacist did not touch them with his hands. The pill counter machine however dispensed both the pill form of the drug in question as well as the capsules DI went in to get... Conspiracy over or invent a new one? Blackbeard and Cassie 2
montyzuma Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) My ex-Gf was a pharmacist....or better yet, i swam in the pharmacy dating pool whilst at varsity... they do not handle capsules etc. witht their hands...especially gelatin ones that will melt from warm hands...they use a spatula type of thingie to count the pills /capsules...so where did the contimination come from..?? <#Conspiracy_hour>Seriously? Have you never watched a pharmacist using a pill counter? They dump a whack of pills into the hard plastic counting tray, scrape the required number into a little channel with a hard plastic spatula, close the lid on the remaining pills, decant the selected ones into the little dispensing canister then decant the remaining uncounted pills back into the bulk bottle. Lots of clattering around, plenty of trauma to the pills, Then dump your gelatin capsules into the pill counter for the next counting job (nice adherent surface - you made the point yourself), pick up that dust and there you go. The hands don't even come into it. The contamination is directly from the pill-counting tray. Edited August 29, 2014 by montyzuma Baaisikilist 1
Cassie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Before I need the Rouxsters burnt out flame suit - I'm not judging here - just a wandering mind. Exactly how impressive are these tests that they can find trace amounts of drugs. Say the chemist had maybe 0.01g on his hands - Daryl weighs 70kg? That's 0.01g in 70,000g 1 in 7,000,000 or 1 part per million by weight. Damn! I wonder at what level Probenicid becomes active in masking other drugs? I could probably Google all of this but we have a trillion legal/medical/pharmaceutical experts on thehub so I'll leave it to you guys :-) Eldron...as a "real" scientist / chemical dude...I can say this with confidence...modern day Gas Chromatography equipment (not to even mention the DNA testing equipment) can easily detect in the nanogram & picogram range...that is parts per million and parts per billion range...also parts pere trillion range is common nowadays! I for one work daily in the PPM / PPB range when analysing gases in the air...so, all jokles aside...you need VERY little transfer to make a detection possible! Patchelicious 1
Andrew Steer Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Look the story is fishy as hell. Home made capsules, grubby drug hands, no recourse for chemist, trace amounts etc... BUT people with much more knowledge and specific details of the case have looked at the evidence and made a call.Or looked at the impressive list of lawyers Daryl Impey pulled in (and thanked in his press release) and deemed it not worth the fight or the resulting crotch punch to their bottom line for the year... We can speculate til we're blue in the face - we will likely never know the truth DIPSLICK, rouxtjie, Patchelicious and 1 other 4
Cassie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Read the report! The pharmacist did not touch them with his hands. The pill counter machine however dispensed both the pill form of the drug in question as well as the capsules DI went in to get... Conspiracy over or invent a new one? well, there is one answer so long...PS: i'm only on page 7 now...reading all the comments from front to back!!
kosmonooit Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 pro's need to be much more careful, if I was a pro I would have certain doctors, pharmacists, nutritionist, dietician, mechanic, girlfriend, physio, restaurant ..............etc who understand exactly how important and delicate I have to be with the things I use and consume and what is at stake if I get it wrong, and i wouldn't go to anyone else or use anyone else services other than those I chose and who understand. How careful can one be? You don't know what you dont know, that's life. In all our contemplating scenarios at the time of the announcement, even the medical professionals here were scratching their heads. But its the same as fault finding in IT / Engineering: where there is a problem, there must a solution. It just has to be found.
SwissVan Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Or looked at the impressive list of lawyers Daryl Impey pulled in (and thanked in his press release) and deemed it not worth the fight or the resulting crotch punch to their bottom line for the year... We can speculate til we're blue in the face - we will likely never know the truth Yeah we all should just saddle up and enjoy the show
Cassie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Seriously? Have you never watched a pharmacist using a pill counter? They dump a whack of pills into the hard plastic counting tray, scrape the required number into a little channel with a hard plastic spatula, close the lid on the remaining pills, decant the selected ones into the little dispensing canister then decant the remaining uncounted pills back into the bulk bottle. Lots of clattering around, plenty of trauma to the pills, Then dump your gelatin capsules into the pill counter for the next counting job (nice adherent surface - you made the point yourself), pick up that dust and there you go. The hands don't even come into it. The contamination is directly from the pill-counting tray. yes seriously...IF he'd used his hands...there would have been traces of UREA and feacal coliforms also found in the sample....so ai agree - the pill tray was the culprit!
Ed-Zulu Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Don't know if this has been asked before, but I haven't the time to read 15 pages... When pro cyclists/or others are charged with doping, as in this case, they are charged for the appearance of a substance during a test, but not evidence of possible ongoing doping to either improve performance or conceal doping? So, it is merely the presence of a banned/prohibited substance. Shouldn't the sanction be placed once it is determined that the athlete is actually found to be a doper that he has doped. Surely the science is there to show the 'bloodwork' is or looks different pointing in a certain direction? Edit: thanks Cassie you answered part of my question Edited August 29, 2014 by Ed-Zulu
Cassie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Easy one....bicarb of soda from your friendly checkers...or you can buy it at 1000% times the price from your local dischem although it will come in a nice container with a flashly label saying like RaceExtremePumpV02TooLegitToQuit you can actually just pop a few RENNIES..theyr'e full of bicarb...and they prevent cramping as well..I've been told...NO NEED TO HNADLE ANYTHING!!
Andrew Steer Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 yes seriously...IF he'd used his hands...there would have been traces of UREA and feacal coliforms also found in the sample....so ai agree - the pill tray was the culprit!Has there ever been a case like this before - I certainly can't think of one... ??I can see this becoming the standard defense for doped athletes from here on in.
rouxtjie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 you can actually just pop a few RENNIES..theyr'e full of bicarb...and they prevent cramping as well..I've been told...NO NEED TO HNADLE ANYTHING!!There is a loading phase with the whole bicarb thing...and also mine has a cooler name
Cassie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 There are two seperate issues here. 1. Doping, blood work, any form of artificial performance enhancement over one's genetic makeup or medical treatment plan to restore hormone levels. Call it whatever you want. 2. The administration of SAIDS. Some commentators have suggested they followed due process. Lets understand this process better please. Anyone in the know please give some info into how this case could rationally have taken as long as it did to give the report on the findings of the blood work and tests? Do they grow a culture and wait for that to sprout before taking their markings?? Duh?? Have you NOT read the papers as to how long it takes for a simple blood alcohol test to come back?? Shh...it's a secret! Always insist on have your blood drawn...the tests take soo long it's not admissable as evidence anymore!!
Squier Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) My ex-Gf was a pharmacist....or better yet, i swam in the pharmacy dating pool whilst at varsity... they do not handle capsules etc. witht their hands...especially gelatin ones that will melt from warm hands...they use a spatula type of thingie to count the pills /capsules...so where did the contimination come from..?? They use pill counters. Remember they caught Contador with 50 picograms of clenbuterol. Edited August 29, 2014 by Squier
Cassie Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Maybe, just maybe the pharmacist was not man enough to admit that he might have done a few capsules with Probenecid and then realised what a d@@s he was for not concentrating on his job . probabaly more corrcet@! All the powders ON HIS SHELF ARE WHITE...AREN'T THEY?
Patchelicious Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Or looked at the impressive list of lawyers Daryl Impey pulled in (and thanked in his press release) and deemed it not worth the fight or the resulting crotch punch to their bottom line for the year... We can speculate til we're blue in the face - we will likely never know the truth Hence me saying it looks fishy, but I am no expert on the actual details of the case, none of us are. I am sure SAIDS would have fought it if they thought they could.
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