Mntboy Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 PoS would an integrated Tokai Park Users group, with us mtbikers as the leaders thereof, not have 1 a bigger voice and 2 More of a chance to get SAN Parks and in particular Pretoria to pay attention to what we are saying and assist in getting some common sense solutions for the use of and the maintenance of Tokai? For example mtbikers take care of the ST and the horse riders of the horse riding areas. All of which is done under the oversight of the abovementioned users group.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 PoS would an integrated Tokai Park Users group, with us mtbikers as the leaders thereof, not have 1 a bigger voice and 2 More of a chance to get SAN Parks and in particular Pretoria to pay attention to what we are saying and assist in getting some common sense solutions for the use of and the maintenance of Tokai? For example mtbikers take care of the ST and the horse riders of the horse riding areas. All of which is done under the oversight of the abovementioned users group.That's what we have at the moment in the Table Mountain Mountain Bikers Forum and Tokai MTB. The horsie ppl don't want to organise themselves. Well, they do, buy they all want to be in control. Parks, as it seems on the outside, just carries on doing their merry thing. They move very slowly, that's for sure. But they do move. When Pretoria let's them.
DJR Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 That's what we have at the moment in the Table Mountain Mountain Bikers Forum and Tokai MTB. The horsie ppl don't want to organise themselves. Well, they do, buy they all want to be in control. Parks, as it seems on the outside, just carries on doing their merry thing. They move very slowly, that's for sure. But they do move. When Pretoria let's them.Ha ha, you're funny.....the horsey types......ha ha. That's how I know them....all in charge.
GoLefty!! Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 why do we continually have to go through the same debate? Ok so I'm also not on vleiboek everyday so I don't know what the new committee is getting up to so is there any updates there?I mean jirre, between the important business of job and talking k*K on thehub where does a o get anytime to go look for facts??!!
Headshot Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I think I'll go ramp the speedbumps in my BM later or tomorrow, maybe...
Mntboy Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Ha ha, you're funny.....the horsey types......ha ha. That's how I know them....all in charge.With whips of course!
i24 Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I have just seen that the 33% increase for day permits has been confirmed. This is just over the top. Notwithstanding all of Pain or Shine's good work and negotiations for a great cycling future, it is time MTBikers stood together and sent a message to Pretoria: - 33% increase is TOO MUCH. Too much relative to inflation. Too much relative to the costs of equivalent facilities like Jonkershoek. Too much relative to the costs of cycling in other SANPark Parks. Too much relative to the effort SANMParks puts back into facilities for cycling. - The annual permit charges have also increased by huge percentages in recent years and do not represent good value when evaluated as above. - There is no discount for families or children. If I go riding with my kids or visitors on the board walk in lower Tokai, I have to pay R60 for each of them. - There are no facilities to sell day passes near lower Tokai, Rhodes Mem, or Kloof Neck, yet cyclists are still expected to purchase day passes to enter TMNP at these points. - None of the money collected is going back into cycling facilities. It is not even going back into areas where cyclists use TMNP - like removing alien vegetation from ex forestry areas. - There is no communication, no discussion and no public participation. No feedback to cycling interest groups. Even a few days ago TMNP officials could not confirm the new fees. Who regulates SANParks? Even TMNP rangers are confused about where cycling is permitted and where it is not. - The vast majority of the dedicated cycling track within TMNP was paid for by volunteers and cycling interest groups, not SANParks. - SANParks do virtually nothing towards basic management of the facilities or taking basic steps to ensure safety. Like erecting signage indicating where cycling is permitted or not permitted, closing tracks damaged by storms and trimming alien vegetation that dangerously overhangs jeep tracks. All of this is left to volunteer cycling groups. While SANParks collect entry fees their failure to do even basic management verges on gross negligence. Yet thousands of cyclists use TMNP and contribute hundreds of thousands of rands to SANPark's budget. SANParks say they are concerned about the impact cycling has on the environment. From their actions it seems they are more concerned about the contribution we make to their budget. SANParks say claim their objective with the 33% increase is to encourage cyclists to purchase annual activity cards. The real effective of this will be to encourage cyclists to cycle without paying at all. Particularly as there are multiple areas of TMNP open to cyclists, many of which have no access control or facilities for selling day passes. I live in the shadow of the mountain. I renew my activity card every year. I cycle at Tokai regularly. I have great respect for our mountain get lots of enjoyment from it. That is why it concerns me that the organisation that is tasked with preserving the mountain for us, uses it to raise more funds from cyclists every year, yet does very little to minimize or restore the environmental impact of cycling. It is time we send a message back to Pretoria. Maybe a petition, maybe a protest. At least some clear feedback from TokaiMTB and Table Mountain MTB. If our voices are not heard now, things will only get worse next year.
(Deon) Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 First to be clear, it's not only my effort - there is the rest of the TokaiMTB committee, PPA, TMB and AMArider who all deserve the credit. Your reaction to the price hike is spot on and it's the way we all feel right now but the cake is not baked just yet. Without going into full detail, we need to be able to show the disproportionate outcome from the study soon to be run. We must present fact on which to base any case and by showing just how totally out of balance the most wanted recreation in Cape Town is, we will have the backing to WHY a % needs to be redirected directly back into the activity. (all the good reasons, eco-tourism, health and recreation, sustainability, income etc..) TMNP know the disgruntled masses are being held back by words for now but as Meurant said without any apology, words will only work for so long. SANParks Head Office now needs to see this as fact... (edit) and they only recognise procedure to be factual - a fight we don't mind fighting but one that has to show results. As far as petition goes, the public participation process is coming, you WILL get your chance to speak through an accepted channel of communication, one the officials cannot ignore. You just better be there with your pen!
Guest Omega Man Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I have just seen that the 33% increase for day permits has been confirmed. This is just over the top. Notwithstanding all of Pain or Shine's good work and negotiations for a great cycling future, it is time MTBikers stood together and sent a message to Pretoria: - 33% increase is TOO MUCH. Too much relative to inflation. Too much relative to the costs of equivalent facilities like Jonkershoek. Too much relative to the costs of cycling in other SANPark Parks. Too much relative to the effort SANMParks puts back into facilities for cycling. - The annual permit charges have also increased by huge percentages in recent years and do not represent good value when evaluated as above. - There is no discount for families or children. If I go riding with my kids or visitors on the board walk in lower Tokai, I have to pay R60 for each of them. - There are no facilities to sell day passes near lower Tokai, Rhodes Mem, or Kloof Neck, yet cyclists are still expected to purchase day passes to enter TMNP at these points. - None of the money collected is going back into cycling facilities. It is not even going back into areas where cyclists use TMNP - like removing alien vegetation from ex forestry areas. - There is no communication, no discussion and no public participation. No feedback to cycling interest groups. Even a few days ago TMNP officials could not confirm the new fees. Who regulates SANParks? Even TMNP rangers are confused about where cycling is permitted and where it is not. - The vast majority of the dedicated cycling track within TMNP was paid for by volunteers and cycling interest groups, not SANParks. - SANParks do virtually nothing towards basic management of the facilities or taking basic steps to ensure safety. Like erecting signage indicating where cycling is permitted or not permitted, closing tracks damaged by storms and trimming alien vegetation that dangerously overhangs jeep tracks. All of this is left to volunteer cycling groups. While SANParks collect entry fees their failure to do even basic management verges on gross negligence. Yet thousands of cyclists use TMNP and contribute hundreds of thousands of rands to SANPark's budget. SANParks say they are concerned about the impact cycling has on the environment. From their actions it seems they are more concerned about the contribution we make to their budget. SANParks say claim their objective with the 33% increase is to encourage cyclists to purchase annual activity cards. The real effective of this will be to encourage cyclists to cycle without paying at all. Particularly as there are multiple areas of TMNP open to cyclists, many of which have no access control or facilities for selling day passes. I live in the shadow of the mountain. I renew my activity card every year. I cycle at Tokai regularly. I have great respect for our mountain get lots of enjoyment from it. That is why it concerns me that the organisation that is tasked with preserving the mountain for us, uses it to raise more funds from cyclists every year, yet does very little to minimize or restore the environmental impact of cycling. It is time we send a message back to Pretoria. Maybe a petition, maybe a protest. At least some clear feedback from TokaiMTB and Table Mountain MTB. If our voices are not heard now, things will only get worse next year.I agree with you 100% ESPECIALLY your last paragraph. I had dinner with friends the other night and the dissatisfaction around Tokai is growing to a point that radical action is inevitable. I think we'll see a huge rise in rogue riding, building and non payment soon. We aren't idiots. We can tell we're being exploited with no return. If Sanparks disrespect their customers how can they reasonably expect their rules to be respected?
(Deon) Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 There is a time and a place for everything. It's not the time now nor the place to rebel in the way you say is being suggested. Over what anyway.. the day rate increase?
DJR Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 .................................. I live in the shadow of the mountain. I renew my activity card every year. I cycle at Tokai regularly. I have great respect for our mountain get lots of enjoyment from it. That is why it concerns me that the organisation that is tasked with preserving the mountain for us, uses it to raise more funds from cyclists every year, yet does very little to minimize or restore the environmental impact of cycling. ........................................Hi i24 I agree with you on just about everything posted above, but this paragraph is something that could have come from my own heart and pen, word for word.
Pappa Bear Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Can Tokai MTB not engage PTA on behalf Tokai's MTB users? Lets cut out the middle man - CT Sanparks and go to the top?
Guest Omega Man Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 There is a time and a place for everything. It's not the time now nor the place to rebel in the way you say is being suggested. Over what anyway.. the day rate increase?My first thought is to agree with you but you and I can't change the thoughts and actions of others. If Sanparks need to be told we're unhappy through a loud hailler, pickets and petitions then so be it. There's a lot of unhappiness around the place dude. All of the stuff we've been discussing for years. Add to that the perceived mismanagement of the Alien vegetation situation, Safety issues and the frankly ridiculous day rate. I think we'll see the screams grow louder as the reality of R60 a day entry kicks in.
Pappa Bear Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Sooner or later this will escalate beyond thehub and Tokai MTB. Address the problem while it is still in "your" control might be the best solution. Imagine the damage a protest would do to relations if all riders decide to rogue ride for a weekend to show their dissatisfaction ....................
dirtypot Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Riding in Tokai and Silvermine last night was just another reminder of why I love the place so much.But at the same time I rode past the spots where I used to sneak in about fifteen years ago to avoid paying, and I was thinking that these spots are probably going to start being used again.
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