SANS Parks Tokai MTB price increase

[Hairy]

I always told the guy at the Jonkers gate that the prices were too cheap. I am fine with paying more if it helps the trails, less riders and less damage to trails, and a more sustainable long term secure safe riding area. Think of how expensive gym is and how crap gym is compared to riding in Jonkers.

 

Considering the increase in mtb numbers, I think the prices were too cheap up to now (supply and demand). Considering that these are really great places to ride, the annual permit is still very good value. 

supply and demand is different to over-inflated 

[Guest Omega Man]

The only time you can get an activity card is during office hours on a weekday. Which makes it difficult for someone with a job to get one. And even so their desire for people to buy activity cards still doesn't justify the ridiculous day rate.

 

Let's be generous here and say there's 10km of singletrack at Tokai. That means you are paying R6 per kilometer to ride Tokai Singletrack. Based on a Rand per trail equation it's cheaper to ride in the PDS in France where the most expensive rate you are paying is 24 Euro for a day lift pass which gives you access to 650km of marked trail. Very roughly that works out to 55 cents per kilometer of singletrack. That makes Tokai literally 10 times more expensive to ride per km that the biggest mountain biking area IN THE WORLD!!

 

I find that rather sobering don't you?

 

I'd wager the rate is similar for Whistler. The best bikepark in the world.

 

If someone can point me to a more expensive mountain biking destination based on a rand per km of singletrack equation in the world I'll be very surprised.

[dirtypot]

Mmmmm Whistler....  I want to go back!  

 

I wish that they'd give me a discount on my activity permit since I'm already forking out for a family SANParks wildcard, but obviously that's not the case.

I'm going to go to Tokai on Friday to renew my permit before they hike up the price again.

Please tell me that they'll be open at 3:30

[Guest Omega Man]

Mmmmm Whistler....  I want to go back!  

 

I wish that they'd give me a discount on my activity permit since I'm already forking out for a family SANParks wildcard, but obviously that's not the case.

I'm going to go to Tokai on Friday to renew my permit before they hike up the price again.

Please tell me that they'll be open at 3:30

How much trail in km is in whistler and how much is a day pass? Let's do a similar equation.

[dirtypot]

It's been a long time since I was there.  I've been in Morzine/Les Gets more recently, but I don't remember those either - I'm sure you do.

But I can cycle to Tokai and still be home in time for a braai.  Canada and France are a bit further away

[Shebeen]

 

If someone can point me to a more expensive mountain biking destination based on a rand per km of singletrack equation in the world I'll be very surprised.

 

I agree with your point but think you're going slightly off tangent. This has got to be the most ridiculous comparison since Jacob Zuma put Nkandla and George Airport in the same paragraph. I know that wasn't that long ago but #1 sets the bar very low.

 

but since we're sizing up apples and oranges, let's go with the topic of the day ACE.

R26.5k per person. maybe 130km of single track in the race, but let's be silly and double that to 260km (just because). So that's R100 per km of single track.

 

what does that mean? well nothing obviously.

[Guest Omega Man]

I agree with your point but think you're going slightly off tangent. This has got to be the most ridiculous comparison since Jacob Zuma put Nkandla and George Airport in the same paragraph. I know that wasn't that long ago but #1 sets the bar very low.

 

but since we're sizing up apples and oranges, let's go with the topic of the day ACE.

R26.5k per person. maybe 130km of single track in the race, but let's be silly and double that to 260km (just because). So that's R100 per km of single track.

 

what does that mean? well nothing obviously.

I respectfully disagree. 

[(Deon)]

This sure is a strange thread. What are we on now, we need more trails? 

[Headshot]

A good place to get activity cards is at Kirstenbosch visitor center - the one at the bottom where Moyo used to be. Never had a problem getting one there.

 

The big problem with TMNP and any large bureaucracy is lack of accountability. They have a book that they work to and in it there is very little about keeping users happy, working with them and being efficient and so on. If SANP is in any way like other parastatals in SA then it is probably also a major waster of money through inefficiency and corruption.

 

they have been able to get away with this because most parks do not have a major city next door and an avid user group who have been traipsing around the mountain for many years. They have not learned that this place is different and needs a different approach.

 

So, you have the Tokai DH track  wood to fill the gaps never arriving despite being promised, delays in decision making, ridiculous rules around how work on trails has to be performed and no budget for trail development. All privately funded and worked on by people who slowly go mad trying to deal with SANP.

 

Look at the latest ticket increase. No comms with Tokai MTB the official body leading to a frustrate group of users. SANP sit back and do as they please because they can and they don't care. If they did care they would communicate clearly and do as they promise eg the wood would arrive. 

 

SANP should be happy to have MTB in the park - it improves safety for other users and we manage our own trails unlike trail runners, dog walkers and horse riders. And it generates a lot of money.

 

All we ask is for a bit of funding, some trust and swifter decision making. Is that too much? So far, yes. I am not holding my breath re any major TMNP funded trail budget for Tokai.

 

The manner in which TMNP treats Tokai MTB ie very little respect if the lack of comms is anything to go by makes me serioulsy question why we should pitter patter around Saskia and co and should not engage more fully with them on an individual basis. Some citizen activism perhaps?  

[kandui]

This basic occurrence should put into perspective the shabbles TMNP / SanParks are in at present:

Rhodes Mem entrance board now indicates biking is allowed in the park.

The trails are now marked.paid for by TMB via Project funding received from PPA in 2013

The trails have seen recent work (upgrade is a subjective term...). there was a plan for a brand new single track next to the old one in December of 2013 already.Permission was granted to peg a trail but on inspection, San Parks stopped it. They had not considered certain laws governing the Rhodes Memorial precinct. Plus the 300m rule which says that any work over 300sqm (300m long single track, 1m wide) would require public participation, etc.

The work has been funded by PPA, organised by Rob and built by Ace of Spades. Again, funded with TMB project funding, plus some discretionary funding from the PPA Mtb Portfolio.

The work in Rhodes Mem that you can see today, cost R23000.

The work only commenced, because cyclists were complaining about the state of the track. The section ranger asked me for help and I put forward the proposal that Bennet come and rebuild the trail (at our expense). Permission was granted the following day and building commenced 10 days later.

 

The build in Rhodes Memorial has nothing to do with the funding that is now paying for the new boardwalk in Lower Tokai. This was a decision taken by the section rangers in the North that work independently from the South.

 

I gave R10000 of the R20000 Mtb discretionary budget to Bennet towards his annual maintenance budget in Jonkershoek.

Jonkershoek is maintained on around R165000/year by Ace of Spades. The bulk of the funds are raised privately with some money coming for Specialized.

.......The rangers are still stopping bikers using the trails, saying it is illegal - therefore, they have not been briefed by their employer of the change in usage rights.... Once the Rhodes Mem single track had been opened for cyclists in 2013, I gave the section rangers detailed maps with the new trail marked (as they had requested) and they were going to educate the rangers.

My difficulty in finding the time to mark the trail was the reason signage only went up recently. i had the signs lying in my garage for months. My mistake.

Pretty bloody simple, right?!

 

I am finding it very difficult to swallow paying money for my Activity Card when:

Portion of money's does not return to allow for maintenance / upgrade (even on as basic a level as a safety level!!!)

Communication is poor, to either organised bodies (TokiaMTB as eg.) or to individual public.

The expectation of the public that are just expected to "deal with it" with regards to the fee to make use of the park (i suppose the same can be said for Eskom, maybe they have a vested stake....I jest, but only a little).

TMNP is still not a "safe" place, with muggings still occurring.

TMNP is still being occupied by many individuals, however little is ever done to remove them, combat the problem or even just get them to pay rent.

My activity card gets me access to Tokia, and Tbl Mtn....but what about all the other lekker areas. Why now make me buy another card / permit to go see the other wonders that we have? In essence we are almost like a premium customer, forking out a fair couple of bucks for the privilege to make use of the park....on lets face it, a minimal level individually.

 

Ag, anyway...difficult to vote with ones wallet in this case. The trails make me smile every time, are readily accessible, allow me and my mates to have a jol on our push bikes and essentially TMNP is a spectacular resource that we have access to. I just wish the red tape would lessen, structure would be put in place that allows for effective comes and building, and trails / access would prevail. Here's me holding thumbs!!!

[marko35s]

This sure is a strange thread. What are we on now, we need more trails?

It's a reasonable point asking how much do you get for the R60 you pay for a day permit.

If worked out in KM's it isn't very much but if measured by other means (the fun factor) it looks a little better.

[MoreTrails]

 

This basic occurrence should put into perspective the shabbles TMNP / SanParks are in at present:

Rhodes Mem entrance board now indicates biking is allowed in the park.

The trails are now marked.paid for by TMB via Project funding received from PPA in 2013

The trails have seen recent work (upgrade is a subjective term...). there was a plan for a brand new single track next to the old one in December of 2013 already.Permission was granted to peg a trail but on inspection, San Parks stopped it. They had not considered certain laws governing the Rhodes Memorial precinct. Plus the 300m rule which says that any work over 300sqm (300m long single track, 1m wide) would require public participation, etc.

The work has been funded by PPA, organised by Rob and built by Ace of Spades. Again, funded with TMB project funding, plus some discretionary funding from the PPA Mtb Portfolio.

The work in Rhodes Mem that you can see today, cost R23000.

The work only commenced, because cyclists were complaining about the state of the track. The section ranger asked me for help and I put forward the proposal that Bennet come and rebuild the trail (at our expense). Permission was granted the following day and building commenced 10 days later.

 

The build in Rhodes Memorial has nothing to do with the funding that is now paying for the new boardwalk in Lower Tokai. This was a decision taken by the section rangers in the North that work independently from the South.

 

I gave R10000 of the R20000 Mtb discretionary budget to Bennet towards his annual maintenance budget in Jonkershoek.

Jonkershoek is maintained on around R165000/year by Ace of Spades. The bulk of the funds are raised privately with some money coming for Specialized.

.......The rangers are still stopping bikers using the trails, saying it is illegal - therefore, they have not been briefed by their employer of the change in usage rights.... Once the Rhodes Mem single track had been opened for cyclists in 2013, I gave the section rangers detailed maps with the new trail marked (as they had requested) and they were going to educate the rangers.

My difficulty in finding the time to mark the trail was the reason signage only went up recently. i had the signs lying in my garage for months. My mistake.

Pretty bloody simple, right?!

 

I am finding it very difficult to swallow paying money for my Activity Card when:

Portion of money's does not return to allow for maintenance / upgrade (even on as basic a level as a safety level!!!)

Communication is poor, to either organised bodies (TokiaMTB as eg.) or to individual public.

The expectation of the public that are just expected to "deal with it" with regards to the fee to make use of the park (i suppose the same can be said for Eskom, maybe they have a vested stake....I jest, but only a little).

TMNP is still not a "safe" place, with muggings still occurring.

TMNP is still being occupied by many individuals, however little is ever done to remove them, combat the problem or even just get them to pay rent.

My activity card gets me access to Tokia, and Tbl Mtn....but what about all the other lekker areas. Why now make me buy another card / permit to go see the other wonders that we have? In essence we are almost like a premium customer, forking out a fair couple of bucks for the privilege to make use of the park....on lets face it, a minimal level individually.

 

Ag, anyway...difficult to vote with ones wallet in this case. The trails make me smile every time, are readily accessible, allow me and my mates to have a jol on our push bikes and essentially TMNP is a spectacular resource that we have access to. I just wish the red tape would lessen, structure would be put in place that allows for effective comes and building, and trails / access would prevail. Here's me holding thumbs!!!

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

A question around the 300sqm ruling....why not build sections of 299sqm at a time (varied) and connect later? SanParks can then have their trail...

 

With regards to you giving the section head a map of the trail vs you putting in the signage...the section head didn't brief his staff properly - that ain't your fault.

[(Deon)]

The problem with a large parastatal IS bureaucracy. To even suggest that anything should be swift is a misnomer. 

 

Regarding the comms.. you spoke to the permit issuing people directly. Did they give you the answers you were looking for? We usually get notice of pending increases but there was not one for the day permit and as it happens, our source was not even aware of the increase. 

 

Regarding the wood. Don't make the mistake of thinking there was no communication. 

 

Regarding the way we are treated, yes it is frustrating not getting what we need for mountain biking but as I have said before, the decisions are not made quickly, nor are they made without consulting the mothership.

 

Regarding the activism, they have been warned that this will be a reality if the process to complete the documents needed to satisfy all the other points of your frustration, is not complete by year-end. As it happens, the ball is in our court and this was confirmed again this morning in my tel call to Meurant, looking into the progress of appointing the consultant to take the draft doc to the public.

 

I see you have convenient left out the good relationship that the groups TMB and TokaiMTB and AMArider and PPA actually have with TMNP. As I said earlier, what happens on the ground is not indicative of poor decisions made here in Cape Town. These people are employed and work under strict rules that they need to follow, sure you have the few that will fight the process but they are not really in control of the final outcome and so their words are taken with a pinch of salt. As MTB reps we too are bound by these rules but have found ways to work within them to make some headway, while the expensive and time-consuming documents that change the way our sport is run, are drawn up.

[NicoBoshoff]

What I don't understand is this:

 

SANPARKS has zero f's to give about anything mtb-related. They indulge us enough because we're a massive money spinner for them. Not because they have any sympathy for our plight.

 

We aren't entitled to trails in Tokai. Yes they are public property managed FOR us (apparently) but specific usage is not catered for in that mandate. It's a conservation area (hahaha) at its core and not a bikepark.

 

So, if we're gatvol (which it seems we are) the question is why still support Tokai / Sanparks? Everytime you pay you tacitly indicate tour acceptance and support to the clusterf$&@ that is occurring there. Stop supporting them if you are really of the view that you cannot support this type of corrupt, inept, apathetic scam that is being run in the name of public conservation.

 

Everytime you pay them you are saying "It's ok, I approve". You are enabling the mess.

 

Would people still support Kruger Park if the roads were left to fall apart, lodges left in ruin and no effort made to combat poaching?

 

Ok, have fun ripping in to me.

[LazyTrailRider]

Everytime you pay them you are saying "It's ok, I approve". You are enabling the mess.

 

Exactly.

 

This is why I've decided to effectively boycott them. Yes, it's going to mean more travelling for me, yes I really love some of the trails, but I feel morally obliged to sanction something that's wrong as little as I possibly can.

[Simon123]

How about a media campaign for our plight?  We need better trails, are paying to utilise the space, yet the money appears to be going nowhere?

 

Should we start it?