SANS Parks Tokai MTB price increase

[Guest Omega Man]

Duane, you're talking about the upper tokai trails. They're referring to the loops down below where the horsies, dooggy people, cyclists and runners go. 

 

The PPA & the pool contractors do the laterite & better stuff for "our" trails. The Parks money is going to the lower reaches, which the PPA initially put in place, IIRC. 

I know who did the pool contractors organization Myles. I'm the oke who made the phonecalls. Please don't be patronizing.

 

The point is it's not parks money. It's PPA money that they are passing off as their own. At least that's the way I read it

[LazyTrailRider]

Muppets. All of them.

 

I think I'm simply going to start avoiding Tokai, in principle. Not because it's expensive (let's not kid ourselves, most of us ride pretty expensive bikes, complaining about R60 is just whining), but because their attitude sucks and I'd like to tell them to go @#$ themselves.

[Bloukrans]

Muppets. All of them.

 

I think I'm simply going to start avoiding Tokai, in principle. Not because it's expensive (let's not kid ourselves, most of us ride pretty expensive bikes, complaining about R60 is just whining), but because their attitude sucks and I'd like to tell them to go @#$ themselves.

Ag nee man, do you eat with that mouth?

[TokaiMTB]

Hi Hubbers,

Just to let you know that we have sent TMNP an email asking about the new price increase and if the Activity Cards will be affected as well. It's news to us so we are just checking whether there will, in fact, be an increase and why.

 

And for your information-if you do ride the lower Tokai sections, you need to have a permit/activity card! I believe that they have put up signage stating as much.

 

We'll let you know once they have responded to us.

[LazyTrailRider]

Ag nee man, do you eat with that mouth?

 

Daily. Usually very tasty food as well.

 

I'm usually quite amused when people find swearing "offensive" (as much as I'm amused by the concept of offense in itself), so:

 

They really can go %#&^ themselves. See, I even used a different word this time.

[DJR]

Hi Hubbers,

Just to let you know that we have sent TMNP an email asking about the new price increase and if the Activity Cards will be affected as well. It's news to us so we are just checking whether there will, in fact, be an increase and why.

 

And for your information-if you do ride the lower Tokai sections, you need to have a permit/activity card! I believe that they have put up signage stating as much.

 

We'll let you know once they have responded to us.

 

SANParks, if you want to implement payment elsewhere (Lower Tokai or Deer Park) you should do it for EVERYONE the same. Control access, take payment, whether you are a dog walker, a hiker, a rock climber, a surfer, a diver, a bike rider, a motorist, a beer swilling loutish braaier, a cable car rider, you name it, make EVERYONE pay! Otherwise, admit that it isn't practical and make it FREE for everyone!

 

STOP PICKING ON MOUNTAINBIKERS!

[Headshot]

 

Just in case anyone had any doubts about TMNP being liable to keep you safe or be liable for damages if you injure yourself or are attacked while using the park...This pic sent tome by the same TMNP official.

[Headshot]

dupl deleted

[porqui]

Cape Town-20140826-00037.jpg

 

Just in case anyone had any doubts about TMNP being liable to keep you safe or be liable for damages if you injure yourself or are attacked while using the park...This pic sent tome by the same TMNP official.

 

 

That sign is not worth the plastic it is written on - if negligence can be proven you are liable.

 

The lower section should be kept free and gratis to all and sundry or iow free for all

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I know who did the pool contractors organization Myles. I'm the oke who made the phonecalls. Please don't be patronizing.

 

The point is it's not parks money. It's PPA money that they are passing off as their own. At least that's the way I read it

Not being patronising at all, Duane. Point is you're referring to the upper trails - the ones we ride on - which I know was paid for by PPA and the guys you organised with. The trails referred to in the mail are those that we don't build.

[(Deon)]

There's nothing stopping anyone from sending Saskia emails asking for clarity but I suspect there will be a lot of duplication in her having to answer emails on a one-one basis. I will have the official statement for all concerned about the rates increases as soon as it's been vetted by the comms dept, this will be Monday.

 

Some clarity in the meantime about the money being spent in the park. TMNP has approached the Cycle Tour Trust for a fee during the Argus tour. This is the events fee for each cyclist using the portion of the road during the event (see media for details). It's been criticised by many but when you see the end-goal for the allocation of funds, you might be pleasantly surprised. The application for project funding was made on Monday and I'm sure it will be a lengthy process approving the projects, but since we are planning for a long-term future of cycling, the wait is worth it.

[Shebeen]

That sign is not worth the plastic it is written on - if negligence can be proven you are liable.

 

The lower section should be kept free and gratis to all and sundry or iow free for all

I'm 110% behind this. It's a gem for families, dog walkers et al. 

[(Deon)]

I'm 110% behind this. It's a gem for families, dog walkers et al. 

I find it better to focus energies on things we can make a difference with. I support the idea too but better to not let expectation run out of hand.

 

It might not look like it - with all the people, dogs, horses, bikes using this area - but the Lower Tokai reserve is an even greater gem for conservation. The fee/permit system for horses, dog and cyclists applies in all sections of the park, I sincerely doubt TMNP would change this rule for what is probably the most important flora conservation area in the whole of CT. 

 

It's uniqueness is that it is a critical red data listed species conservancy stretching like a finger right into the suburbs. You won't find an area like it anywhere else in the world.

 

Get an annual dog card, get an annual cyclist card and pray that TMNP improves the rider offering after all the long, hard work the reps have gone through over the last few years. Like Omega said earlier, price increases make it really hard to continue doing what we do. We are already at the point where the day pass exceeds the offering in Tokai, another increase without firm commitment from TMNP SANParks would just spell a losing battle. 

 

 

The big change that SHOULD (wish) happen is that Pretoria no longer sets priorities for the regional reserves. As if someone behind a desk in Pretoria knows what is best for locals in Cape Town.. that idea needs greater support. We should be demanding that SANParks changes it's decision making policies, so often TMNP is blamed for poor choices made elsewhere. This system is seriously disconnected and an archaic policy.

 

Local stakeholders should be involved in desicions that affect them but always places the environment first..

 

EDIT: we actually do have the support from TMNP.

[Freex]

There are two issues here . One affects the regulars (card holders) that have a voice somewhat and the casual users (me). As a customer driving the distance to Tokai to pay R60 does not compare to the other MTB sites that are considerably less and offer a similar experience. All I am asking is that TMNP keep in line with the normal pricing structure that other venues charge. Is that not too much to ask. It make for good business relations with the MTB community (customers).

[Shebeen]

I find it better to focus energies on things we can make a difference with. I support the idea too but better to not let expectation run out of hand.

 

It might not look like it - with all the people, dogs, horses, bikes using this area - but the Lower Tokai reserve is an even greater gem for conservation. The fee/permit system for horses, dog and cyclists applies in all sections of the park, I sincerely doubt TMNP would change this rule for what is probably the most important flora conservation area in the whole of CT.

 

It's uniqueness is that it is a critical red data listed species conservancy stretching like a finger right into the suburbs. You won't find an area like it anywhere else in the world.

 

Get an annual dog card, get an annual cyclist card and pray that TMNP improves the rider offering after all the long, hard work the reps have gone through over the last few years. Like Omega said earlier, price increases make it really hard to continue doing what we do. We are already at the point where the day pass exceeds the offering in Tokai, another increase without firm commitment from TMNP SANParks would just spell a losing battle.

 

 

The big change that SHOULD (wish) happen is that Pretoria no longer sets priorities for the regional reserves. As if someone behind a desk in Pretoria knows what is best for locals in Cape Town.. that idea needs greater support. We should be demanding that SANParks changes it's decision making policies, so often TMNP is blamed for poor choices made elsewhere. This system is seriously disconnected and an archaic policy.

 

Local stakeholders should be involved in desicions that affect them but always places the environment first..

 

EDIT: we actually do have the support from TMNP.

i don't really see the point in them charging for the cycle track area on tokai east,its like rondebosch common with multiple entrance points. I also doubt its the most important conservation area in the city,having been pine/gum forest for 95 years of the last hundred. My activity card gets me legal on a bike, but must i get one for my two year old in the seat too now?

[Headshot]

My position: The TMNP is a reality and we have to work with them. There are issues at the regional level involving poor communication, idiotic permit pricing and applicability etc. These were raised at the recent meeting with stake holders. Bearing this in mind I don't think that emailing one of their paid officials is out of order at all. I fail to see why this even gets a mention (Deon?)   I raised various issues that have been bothering me for some time and dug up an old draft email I wrote months ago. I also mentioned the issue of fining people and suggested that they implement a ticket issuing system instead. This suggestion was apparently well received.

 

On the legal issue of liability I think that the comment from Porqui is wrong. I posted the picture as a follow on to a discussion I had on another forum and may have mentioned here as well. It is in my opinion ( as an attorney) that disclaimers like the one in the TMNP signs will in most cases absolve them from liability if you are robbed or crash off your bike at al in TMNP. It gets more technical than this but that is it in broad strokes.

 

The only time you can get around such a disclaimer is if you can show that the accident or loss occurred as a result of the gross negligence of an employee - ie someone has to act as stupidly as Oscar to make them liable. So, if you ride down the jeep track ( which is a sin anyway) and a TMNP ranger steps into your way  causing a crash you will probably not have a claim. On the other hand, if  he or she races up round a blind corner at Tokai in a work bakkie and klaps a few cyclists, there is probably scope for a damages claim because we are then in Oscar territory.

 

Feel free to disagree but only if you can quote me a recent case which turns the aforementioned position on its face