Cycling Cecilia cork tree trail

[Shebeen]

Hardly surprising with the "activist" role he's adopted. While sometimes a good thing, throwing your constituents in front of the bus is just plain wrong - oh, TMB is not constituted, it doesn't matter as much then?

 

You'll find similar posts in various places and if following these risky guidelines and caught, you will have only yourself to blame.

 

Better hope the judge doesn't see a pattern forming because how many cases can possibly be thrown out before it looks plausible.

 

ED: better not mean PPA promotes civil disobedience

is table mountain bikers not a club? With members, constition, AGM,elections etc? Had a quick look on the website and it looks more like a business. A health club on the mountain so to speak.

 

Now I'm not doubting the really good work that's been done, but if it's a business then the owner is then liable for the actions of tmb?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

is table mountain bikers not a club? With members, constition, AGM,elections etc? Had a quick look on the website and it looks more like a business. A health club on the mountain so to speak.

 

Now I'm not doubting the really good work that's been done, but if it's a business then the owner is then liable for the actions of tmb?

It's not constituted, if that's what you're asking. No AGM. No elections. 

[Headshot]

Agreed, be very careful with this, especially if you plan to travel overseas and need to apply for a visa. A criminal record will keep you out of most countries. Ditto for any new job you try to get. Get proper legal advice, find out exactly under what law you are charged and how to deal with it. The possible fall out if you get it wrong is not going to be good and you will be stuck with it for ever! Otherwise it will later cost you and arm and a leg to make it disappear. 

 

Hub lawyers, is there anybody out there? (Sorry Pink Floyd)

I am hence my advice above. Someone please send me a copy of the tickets they have been issuing  to  ijajino1@gmail.com. Ta.

[Toby Adams]

Let's stick to the subject, and may i repeat my question to any 'official' out there

 

When will cyclists with valid activity cards be given permission to cycle the so called 'cork tree trail' in Cecilia forest (from Cecilia entrance gate at the top of Southern Cross drive to the main gate near Hohenort Avenue)?

 

Just an estimated time frame, thats all

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Let's stick to the subject, and may i repeat my question to any 'official' out there

 

When will cyclists with valid activity cards be given permission to cycle the so called 'cork tree trail' in Cecilia forest (from Cecilia entrance gate at the top of Southern Cross drive to the main gate near Hohenort Avenue)?

 

Just an estimated time frame, thats all

If there's one thing I've learnt through dealing with Parks, and knowing people who deal with Parks on a daily basis, I'll tell you this:

 

Piece of string, 1 length of. 

[marko35s]

Let's stick to the subject, and may i repeat my question to any 'official' out there

 

When will cyclists with valid activity cards be given permission to cycle the so called 'cork tree trail' in Cecilia forest (from Cecilia entrance gate at the top of Southern Cross drive to the main gate near Hohenort Avenue)?

 

Just an estimated time frame, thats all

I doubt you fill find an official on here, and I would be stunned if (by some small miracle you did find one) that official would be prepared to put a time frame, no matter how loose, on anything.

Maybe contact Rob at PPA.

[(Deon)]

Let's stick to the subject, and may i repeat my question to any 'official' out there

 

When will cyclists with valid activity cards be given permission to cycle the so called 'cork tree trail' in Cecilia forest (from Cecilia entrance gate at the top of Southern Cross drive to the main gate near Hohenort Avenue)?

 

Just an estimated time frame, thats all

Hi Toby,

 

I am no "official"  but have for some time been included in the emails between the City of CT, Table Mountain National Park and various stakeholders, and while not actively involved in the discussion on the subject of route openings initiated by Table Mountain Bikers, can confirm a few questions from recent email updates, my involvement in the TMMTB forum, as well as stringing together some detail emerged in this thread. The answer to your above question is set in bold.

 

• As expected, neither Greenbelt nor Cecelia are open to cycling and confirmation that fines will be issued for transgressions on TMNP land has been made clear some time ago.
• At the time of Cecelia's inclusion for mountain biking in the 2002 EMP, it was not a part of the Table Mountain National Park cluster of reserves and in 2005 following it's induction, was subsequently removed from the list as no mountain bike EMP exists for this area allowing effective management of the activity or an infrastructure keeping the possible conflicting activities apart.
• The "trial Cecelia agreement" seems to in-fact make up part of the process underway with the Table Mountain Mountain Bike forum (TMMTB) comprising PPA, Amarider, TokaiMTB and Table Mountain Bikers. 
• The TMMTB forum is tasked with revising the management plan (EMP) for mountain biking in the reserve and works with an appointed consultant (through tender) for rationalising and proposing an expanded network of trails in Tokai, and linking network of trails to/from the area north (City). One of these goals is a circum-peninsula mtb/shared-use trail. 
• As each group operates autonomously, it seems it was an initiative of Table Mountain Bikers to secure commitment that the trail in question could be opened for trial shared-use to eventually be included in the revised mountain biking map currently being planned. The intent of the Cecelia agreement was not communicated to the forum by the time the agreement was made public but it is expected will form part of the vision in the next trail planning meeting. While timelines were not provided in the public release of information, the request to refrain from riding until further notice was mentioned. 
• The "trial basis" in Cecelia as handled by Table Mountain Bikers independent of the TMMTB forum, is dependent on the completion of the revised EMP for which the TMMTB forum has a set goal of no-later than the the end of this year - 2015.  It requires public participation and various joint document revisions which takes time due to the level of detail. 
• The CoCT Greenbelt approval is not dependent on the Table Mountain National Park required processes but is still subject to further consultation before being adopted as a mountain bike shared-use area. The public has also been advised to refrain from riding this route until further notice.
• Why the communication of the letter of intent from Table Mountain National Park was publicised as an interim agreement without the need for first completing the EMP is not understood. The communication sent out did however state that these areas are to remain off-limits until further notice.

[DJR]

I just bit my tongue

[Slapsock]

 

Hi Toby,

 

I am no "official"  but have for some time been included in the emails between the City of CT, Table Mountain National Park and various stakeholders, and while not actively involved in the discussion on the subject of route openings initiated by Table Mountain Bikers, can confirm a few questions from recent email updates, my involvement in the TMMTB forum, as well as stringing together some detail emerged in this thread. The answer to your above question is set in bold.

 

• As expected, neither Greenbelt nor Cecelia are open to cycling and confirmation that fines will be issued for transgressions on TMNP land has been made clear some time ago.
• At the time of Cecelia's inclusion for mountain biking in the 2002 EMP, it was not a part of the Table Mountain National Park cluster of reserves and in 2005 following it's induction, was subsequently removed from the list as no mountain bike EMP exists for this area allowing effective management of the activity or an infrastructure keeping the possible conflicting activities apart.
• The "trial Cecelia agreement" seems to in-fact make up part of the process underway with the Table Mountain Mountain Bike forum (TMMTB) comprising PPA, Amarider, TokaiMTB and Table Mountain Bikers. 
• The TMMTB forum is tasked with revising the management plan (EMP) for mountain biking in the reserve and works with an appointed consultant (through tender) for rationalising and proposing an expanded network of trails in Tokai, and linking network of trails to/from the area north (City). One of these goals is a circum-peninsula mtb/shared-use trail. 
• As each group operates autonomously, it seems it was an initiative of Table Mountain Bikers to secure commitment that the trail in question could be opened for trial shared-use to eventually be included in the revised mountain biking map currently being planned. The intent of the Cecelia agreement was not communicated to the forum by the time the agreement was made public but it is expected will form part of the vision in the next trail planning meeting. While timelines were not provided in the public release of information, the request to refrain from riding until further notice was mentioned. 
• The "trial basis" in Cecelia as handled by Table Mountain Bikers independent of the TMMTB forum, is dependent on the completion of the revised EMP for which the TMMTB forum has a set goal of no-later than the the end of this year - 2015.  It requires public participation and various joint document revisions which takes time due to the level of detail. 
• The CoCT Greenbelt approval is not dependent on the Table Mountain National Park required processes but is still subject to further consultation before being adopted as a mountain bike shared-use area. The public has also been advised to refrain from riding this route until further notice.
• Why the communication of the letter of intent from Table Mountain National Park was publicised as an interim agreement without the need for first completing the EMP is not understood. The communication sent out did however state that these areas are to remain off-limits until further notice.

Just when I thought we were actually getting somewhere...so same old same old then?

How did trails get approved for table mountain without this EMP and cork trees cant be approved until EMP is finished. Very confusing

[Flowta]

 

 

• The TMMTB forum is tasked with revising the management plan (EMP) for mountain biking in the reserve and works with an appointed consultant (through tender) for rationalising and proposing an expanded network of trails in Tokai, and linking network of trails to/from the area north (City). One of these goals is a circum-peninsula mtb/shared-use trail. 

 

 

And the status on this?

[Mntboy]

I am hence my advice above. Someone please send me a copy of the tickets they have been issuing to ijajino1@gmail.com. Ta.

Let me ask since it is of some relevance to this thread and the discussion at hand: If you receive an admission of guilt fine and decide to contest it in court and lose and is then made to pay it via court order will it result in one having a criminal record? Because that is my understanding of how that process works.

[Flowta]

And the status on this?

 

ok, I see you've set the goal for end 2015?

[(Deon)]

Just when I thought we were actually getting somewhere...so same old same old then?

How did trails get approved for table mountain without this EMP and cork trees cant be approved until EMP is finished. Very confusing

Just so you know, in Tokai if a trail was going to be repurposed based on the call of the section ranger, it would need to be substantiated by how frequently other users use the trail.. We never got any singletrack but a few options were open for consideration before the fire, mainly inaccessible jeep track which was due for rehabilitation - we could rehab it into ST.. The one old ST route which seemed near impossible to gain from a heritage angle was in discussion for MONTHS and stopped at the fire..

 

The Punpudding trail used by hikers, dog walkers, trail joggers and now mountain bikers does confuse, I'll concede.

 

Ed: Oh, and an EMP does exist for the North.

Edited June 24, 2015 by (Deon)

[Toby Adams]

 

Hi Toby,

 

I am no "official"  but have for some time been included in the emails between the City of CT, Table Mountain National Park and various stakeholders, and while not actively involved in the discussion on the subject of route openings initiated by Table Mountain Bikers, can confirm a few questions from recent email updates, my involvement in the TMMTB forum, as well as stringing together some detail emerged in this thread. The answer to your above question is set in bold.

 

• As expected, neither Greenbelt nor Cecelia are open to cycling and confirmation that fines will be issued for transgressions on TMNP land has been made clear some time ago.
• At the time of Cecelia's inclusion for mountain biking in the 2002 EMP, it was not a part of the Table Mountain National Park cluster of reserves and in 2005 following it's induction, was subsequently removed from the list as no mountain bike EMP exists for this area allowing effective management of the activity or an infrastructure keeping the possible conflicting activities apart.
• The "trial Cecelia agreement" seems to in-fact make up part of the process underway with the Table Mountain Mountain Bike forum (TMMTB) comprising PPA, Amarider, TokaiMTB and Table Mountain Bikers. 
• The TMMTB forum is tasked with revising the management plan (EMP) for mountain biking in the reserve and works with an appointed consultant (through tender) for rationalising and proposing an expanded network of trails in Tokai, and linking network of trails to/from the area north (City). One of these goals is a circum-peninsula mtb/shared-use trail. 
• As each group operates autonomously, it seems it was an initiative of Table Mountain Bikers to secure commitment that the trail in question could be opened for trial shared-use to eventually be included in the revised mountain biking map currently being planned. The intent of the Cecelia agreement was not communicated to the forum by the time the agreement was made public but it is expected will form part of the vision in the next trail planning meeting. While timelines were not provided in the public release of information, the request to refrain from riding until further notice was mentioned. 
• The "trial basis" in Cecelia as handled by Table Mountain Bikers independent of the TMMTB forum, is dependent on the completion of the revised EMP for which the TMMTB forum has a set goal of no-later than the the end of this year - 2015.  It requires public participation and various joint document revisions which takes time due to the level of detail. 
• The CoCT Greenbelt approval is not dependent on the Table Mountain National Park required processes but is still subject to further consultation before being adopted as a mountain bike shared-use area. The public has also been advised to refrain from riding this route until further notice.
• Why the communication of the letter of intent from Table Mountain National Park was publicised as an interim agreement without the need for first completing the EMP is not understood. The communication sent out did however state that these areas are to remain off-limits until further notice.

 

Deon,

thanks for your detailed reply, much appreciated and keep up the good work

 

You very obviously have far more patience than me to sit through so many meeting trying to get approval for the "circum-peninsula mtb/shared-use trail"

From the time of the original '2002 EMP' till now in 2015 is one hell of a long time

 

All i am at present asking for is access to the 1500m of 'cork tree trail' running adjacent to the very narrow, dangerous for cyclists, and busy Rhodes Drive, no fynbos there, only alien pines and cork trees

 

One can feel for the 'service delivery' protesters if this is how long it take to get a goverment agency to resolve a small item like this

[Flowta]

Just so you know, in Tokai if a trail was going to be repurposed based on the call of the section ranger, it would need to be substantiated by how frequently other users use the trail.. We never got any singletrack but a few options were open for consideration before the fire, mainly inaccessible jeep track which was due for rehabilitation - we could rehab it into ST.. The one old ST route which seemed near impossible to gain from a heritage angle was in discussion for MONTHS and stopped at the fire..

 

The Punpudding trail used by hikers, dog walkers, trail joggers and now mountain bikers does confuse, I'll concede.

 

Ed: Oh, and an EMP does exist for the North.

 

How come not the South?

[DJR]

............One can feel for the 'service delivery' protesters if this is how long it take to get a goverment agency to resolve a small item like this

Most right minded people will agree with you on this. It IS frustrating.