jamsack Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Hi Hubbers, Sorry to use this forum to air a personal grievance, but I feel others need fair warning and there are some lessons to be learnt. The story (sorry for the length - context is important): I purchased a second hand Fox 32 Factory Series fork from a Mr Alec Mann in Pietermaritzburg late last year (November). I'm from Cape Town and not a bike expert, so I relied on Alec's good word regarding the fork's condition. He sent through some low res pics and all looked well. At a low price of R2500 I thought I was getting a genuinely good deal. Certainly wasn't expecting a mint quality fork at that price: external cosmetic issues and in need of a service, sure, but no catastrophic damage. In his words it was "in very good condition". Payment was made in early November and I collected the fork from intermediary holders Greg Minnaar Cycles in early December (while on work up near PMB). On collection I noticed some deep scratches on the lower stanchions where they meet the seals. I was a miffed at not having been made aware of this but not being an expert I didn't fully appreciate the severity of the damage. A month had already passed since payment and I was in the middle of a typically frenetic work trip, so the fork was tossed in the boot and forgotten until the build. This is the first lesson. I should have taken up the issue with Mr Mann as soon as I'd seen the fork and/or taken a photo of the damage and possibly had someone at the cycle store take note of it. Finally at the end of January the fork was fitted to a beautiful Dave Mercer frame. Dave pretty much single handedly did the build (with me getting in the way). I'm not sure if he noticed the damaged fork, but at this stage my focus was on the new build, with the fork being a minor niggle to be sorted out later. Post-build the bike stood while I tried to resolve headset length and seat position issues as the riding style was a bit cramped. I test rode the bike, but I kept well clear of any off-road/dirt/rain/mud riding. As in ZERO. After a serious motorcycle accident in April (which has put me off any riding since then) I decided to finally get the fork serviced so she'd be ready to ride once I'd recovered. I took the fork to Andrew Haylett of Stoke Suspension, who dropped the bombshell that the stanchion damage I'd noticed was basically terminal without a rebuild costing over R4k (see photo). This is when I got in touch with Mr Mann, carefully outlining the issue and the timeline over which things happened. He denied knowledge of the deep scratches on the stanchion and basically accused me of taking the piss. I was initially willing to concede that he'd made a mistake and not seen the scratches, but in our final exchanges his view that "Even with scratches that fork is worth R2500" suggests that he knew about the damage all along. His best offer of compensation has been for me to send the fork back to him, have him resell it at some stage at some lower price and send me the money! In the words of George W Bush: "Fool me once...you can't get fooled again". Mr Mann has not even bothered to respond to my compromise suggestion that he at least pay for the service (which cost R900) as some form acknowledgement of his error. My experience dealing with Hubbers has been excellent 99% of the time. But there are always going to be guys out there trying to put one over you. This leads me to the second lesson: if you're buying something, whether remotely or in person, it's a good idea to have a recognised cycle store inspect the item for you if you're not an expert. I won't be making this mistake again. Sam JackCape TownJuly 2015
Tumbleweed Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 After a serious motorcycle accident in April (which has put me off any riding since then) I decided to finally get the fork serviced so she'd be ready to ride once I'd recovered. I took the fork to Andrew Haylett of Stoke Suspension, who dropped the bombshell that the stanchion damage I'd noticed was basically terminal without a rebuild costing over R4k (see photo). Me no see photo. Me see popcorn though.
Tumbleweed Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Is your last paragraph also a dig at the bike shop mentioned earlier as the "intermediary"?
VicanZA Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 post 1, welcome to the hub, let me get the popcorn, this may bring out the best in us yet.
Shebeen Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 I'm going to jump in here, only because I know the OP and can vouch for his integrity - he would not just sommer jump in here first post without thinking first. no pseudonyms - straight shooter. You okes think River rat has stories of floating for fun?! Sam please go rate the seller if you haven't already, the best way to manage what is 95% of the time a brilliant marketplace.
Shebeen Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 show us the mercer frame please,ja. we are going to need to see this too. that is actually your biggest error here!
Ryanpmb Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 I stopped reading after you said you were bargain hunting for a fork and then mentioned your Mercer frame... do the frame some justice.
HeyYou Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 I suspect there's too long an interval between purchase and problem, but nevertheless feel for you. Regardless of the merits of your particular case, GOOD ADVICE.
Eldron Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Rate the seller - it'll help others avoid using him once this thread is gone and forgotten.
RocknRolla Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Hi Jamsack, and welcome to the hub. From your post it seems, you do not want an outcome, and that you have learnt some valuable lessons, and only wish to share your experience. However. You did post this, in hope of the seller reading this, and then maybe getting some alternative outcome? Personally, I dont think you have a real foot to stand on. There is always a risk when buying second hand. Specially high service items like suspension. I would certainly not buy such an item with only low res pics.
jamsack Posted July 15, 2015 Author Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks for the replies. I see this forum gets some traffic. Sorry, I forgot to "Attach This File". Done. Embarrassed to say I don't have a pic of the Mercer - she's a beauty - will try post one tomorrow. Building a bike is expensive, hence building up with 2nd hand parts. And as I said, my experience on The Hub has generally been excellent. Thanks for the advice on rating the seller. I hope his credentials are still on the site since after seeing the ad on The Hub, all subsequent exchange was via Whatsapp/email. Obviously Mr Mann has right of reply and I believe both sides of a story should be aired. The central issue for me is that I dealt with him in good faith and I expected the same from him. The money is less important to me. Thanks for vouching for me Steve. Sam ps. Greg Minnaar Cycles was simply the intermediary - I'm not making any accusations against them.
Vetseun Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Those scratches are very visible. You should have inspected the fork at the bike shop. I think you will be paying school fees on this one.
Grebel Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Unless GM Cycles in PMB were specifically asked to do a report on the fork in question for you in your absence, it seems unfair to bring their name into the discussion. From what I can gather they merely held on to the item for you until you had a chance to collect it. The way that people speed read around here that little bit of info might sadly go unnoticed. As mentioned, school fees may have been paid but to anybody else reading and unless you are 100% sure of the buyer, perhaps a small fee to a recognized suspension specialist or LBS might not be a bad idea when purchasing wearing items such as suspension. Edit: Spelling
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