GrumpyOldGuy Posted December 16, 2015 Share Yeah i remember that, think the initial petrol station was at the Boksburg pick n pay before the east rand mall was built...they also got flack for selling fuel cheaper than the other petrol stations. Yeah, indeed they did. Fuel was heavily controlled (well, still is) and the government leaned on the fuel companies not to supply them, they then tried another tack by giving pro-rata fuel rebates if you purchased your groceries etc at P&P and bought your fuel at their stations, effectively they said they were just cross subsidizing their own petrol stations and it was legal, but again the government leaned on the suppliers and very soon they had to toss in the towel on all fronts. Those were interesting times were they not.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted December 16, 2015 Share I never said machines, automation or modern tech was a bad thing and yep i admit i had to use my google machine to find out what " pernicious " meant That's definitely a benefit for stone age peasants like me...LOL For those other stone agers like me:pernicious: having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way. As for Mr Henry Hazlitt (1894-1993) of 4400% fame (those machines could not have been very efficient...). Unfortunately he passed away long before smart phones proliferated planet earth like they do now, in other words the technology when he did his study was vastly different to that of today and tomorrow. Don't get me wrong, technology in the workplace certainly has its benefits... but i don't think we have experienced the full effect of technology replacing humans in the work place yet. But Swiss!Technology is just technology; Arkwright's machines, in his age, were probably more fantastic to the average man than the smartphone is now. When technology is introduced into the home or workplace, it benefits humanity through lower prices, more abundant goods and the elimination of unpleasant tasks (who can forget the exciting employment of the 'knocker-up'; today we use the alarm on our smartphones to accomplish the result of her labours); be that as it may, Hazlitt and others have noted that there may well be short-term pain for those directly affected - the knocker-up and her pea-shooter have to find something else to do which people want. BTW sorry for getting sidetracked here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Potgieter Posted December 16, 2015 Share Yeah, indeed they did. Fuel was heavily controlled (well, still is) and the government leaned on the fuel companies not to supply them, they then tried another tack by giving pro-rata fuel rebates if you purchased your groceries etc at P&P and bought your fuel at their stations, effectively they said they were just cross subsidizing their own petrol stations and it was legal, but again the government leaned on the suppliers and very soon they had to toss in the towel on all fronts. Those were interesting times were they not.? It was a Trek station. Had a zebra as a logo. I remember Ackerman was arrested for refusing to increase the fuel price. The day following a fuel price hike he sold at old price. He claimed that the fuel in his underground tanks was bought at the old price and he would only increase his sale price when he bought at the new sale price. SwissVan and GrumpyOldGuy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted December 17, 2015 Share That's a persistent and pernicious fallacy Swiss. Advancement certainly does eliminate a lot of jobs...but remember, every advancement is done for the benefit of people. Full employment is not a desirable thing; to use a bit of reductio ad absurdum, in the stone age we had full employment where people were banging rocks together and scraping around in the mud like the peasants in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail. Sure, everyone was working, but it wasn't very nice.Also, crucially, as advancements happen, jobs don't disappear, they change. Think about the modern landscape...when I started work about 24 years ago, I had no idea what 'IT' was and I don't think I was alone. Today, there are an absolute multitude of jobs available which simply didn't exist then - just scan the classifieds.Fundamentally, the idea that 'machines', mechanisation, automation and efficiency are a bad thing is a deeply flawed one. The logic is precisely the same as that applied by the Luddites in the 19th century when they set about destroying stocking frames and other machinery.As noted by economist Henry Hazlitt, the introduction of machinery to stocking production caused an increase in the number of people employed in this industry by 4400%, while dramatically lowering the price of the finished good for any person who wished to purchase it.That right there is the benefit of automation and the benefits it brings not just to those running the machines, but society as a whole.Agreed, however, for that to e so education is the key. If you are uneducated, well................. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem and intern 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberdrake Posted December 17, 2015 Share I see this threads has gone a bit off the rails, so ill ask with all the pretty pictures (without rain) what is the ugly? NixM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Potgieter Posted December 17, 2015 Share Agreed, however, for that to e so education is the key. If you are uneducated, well.................Ill let you know when i spot it. flymango 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Agreed, however, for that to e so education is the key. If you are uneducated, well................. That must e my problem.... Sorri for the hijack WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted December 17, 2015 Share That must e my problem.... Sorri for the hijack WPSorry for the "e" I meant for that to work education is the key. Unfortunately this is not high on our agenda. See it is even affecting me. SwissVan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted December 17, 2015 Share Back on topic, it is also not so rainy in Ctn, OK a bit windy maybe. Blackbeard and RossW 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted December 17, 2015 Share Agreed, however, for that to e so education is the key. If you are uneducated, well.................The real problem behind the apparent paradox of 'job shortages' and 'growing unemployment' is that education machinery, even in a developed nation like New Zealand, far lags the requirements of the modern economy. In effect, our schools (and universities) here in NZ are teaching kids things they won't be able to use to earn a living. While all the BAs and LLBs and Women and Gender Studies luvvies walk away with fancy degrees and titles, there is very little demand for that sort of 'skill'. It is for this reason that I firmly believe the primary responsibility for the education of children rests with parents. My boys will be taught to take apart computers, plumb drains and build cupboards before they go to uni - ie, they will learn actual skills. This is not to say that there isn't value in things like the classics or cultural studies - there is. But to earn a living, you have to be able to meet a need that society has. Mamil, Hennie VR, dev null and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted December 17, 2015 Share And PS I managed to get the thread back to NZ and even include the ugly - the education system, wonderful as it is, still lags the needs of the market. BOOM! Wayne Potgieter and Amberdrake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted December 17, 2015 Share I see this threads has gone a bit off the rails, so ill ask with all the pretty pictures (without rain) what is the ugly? Well...I'm here, aren't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted December 17, 2015 Share The real problem behind the apparent paradox of 'job shortages' and 'growing unemployment' is that education machinery, even in a developed nation like New Zealand, far lags the requirements of the modern economy. In effect, our schools (and universities) here in NZ are teaching kids things they won't be able to use to earn a living. While all the BAs and LLBs and Women and Gender Studies luvvies walk away with fancy degrees and titles, there is very little demand for that sort of 'skill'. It is for this reason that I firmly believe the primary responsibility for the education of children rests with parents. My boys will be taught to take apart computers, plumb drains and build cupboards before they go to uni - ie, they will learn actual skills. This is not to say that there isn't value in things like the classics or cultural studies - there is. But to earn a living, you have to be able to meet a need that society has. Isn't child labour illegal in NZ? Edited December 18, 2015 by SwissVan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flymango Posted December 17, 2015 Share Ill let you know when i spot it. I won't be holding my breath ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Potgieter Posted December 17, 2015 Share Ok...here are some negatives. Food and eating out are expensive. Ridiculously so. To put it in perspective Burgers fries and a drink for a family of four is around NZ $60. Roe is 10 to 1. Groceries are also pretty expensive. I took my car for a car wash the other day. Just a standard "executive" type wash. It was NZ $82.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern Posted December 17, 2015 Share Isn't child labour illegal in NZ Actually, no it isn't! Children are allowed to earn an income and they are not taxed on it. Which is why some kids will spend their holidays picking berries etc along with their parents (tends to be lower socio-economic groups, though there is never any shame in decent hard work). A mate of mine runs a berry farm down in Whakatane, he says his good workers bring their kids, they spend the day working and they earn good dosh with limited tax overhead.http://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/different-income-taxed/child-ex-inc/iit-child-exempt-inc.html SwissVan and Wayne Potgieter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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