forkie Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 again this may be complete bollocks. but i currently have a .22 rifle which goes to the farm with me. i have often thought to myself that if i had to use it on someone i would shoot them in the stomach. i reckon the pain form a stomach shot would be enough to debilitate someone completely and thus ensure you are no longer under threat. would like to hear the pros thoughts gummibear 1
gummibear Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 again this may be complete bollocks. but i currently have a .22 rifle which goes to the farm with me. i have often thought to myself that if i had to use it on someone i would shoot them in the stomach. i reckon the pain form a stomach shot would be enough to debilitate someone completely and thus ensure you are no longer under threat. would like to hear the pros thoughtsThe pain in the stomach is excruciating and will definitely slow the perp down.Depending on what you hit he could die from the infection. forkie 1
gummibear Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 just think it makes any follow up court appearances easier. Dead man tells no tales. forkie, Underachiever, dev null and 1 other 4
dev null Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 this is my thinking and it may very well be complete bollocks. if i am in a situation i want the bad guy to go down, but if possble not die. i just think it makes any follow up court appearances easier. but the harder he goes down the better, so a bigger hole in a non vital area would be more effective than a smaller one. Defense lawyers will tell you that your logic will count against you. It is better that the perpetrator is not present in court to tell a completely different story to your account of events that led to you shooting and maiming him/her. Wannabe 1
forkie Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Defense lawyers will tell you that your logic will count against you. It is better that the perpetrator is not present in court to tell a completely different story to your account of events that led to you shooting and maiming him/her. good to know.
GrahamS2 Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 this is my thinking and it may very well be complete bollocks. if i am in a situation i want the bad guy to go down, but if possble not die. i just think it makes any follow up court appearances easier. but the harder he goes down the better, so a bigger hole in a non vital area would be more effective than a smaller one.Definitely don't agree. In SA, if you shoot someone in self defense, you really don't want to end up in court with a judge hearing their version of events versus yours. It generally does not end very well for the shooter. I actually have a friend who went through this following an armed robbery at his home. He shot both perps but didn't end them. They both turned out to be metro cops, and his life became a living hell for a long time. He ended up leaving the country to escape it. If you can resolve it without a gun, don't draw. If you have to draw, make it count. forkie and dev null 2
forkie Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 i have heard of people who have unlicensed firearms in their posession with the sole purpose of planting on dead perps to make their case stronger.
johnson Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 The .40 has a huge kick compared to the 9mm.Reason i bought a 9mm was that i was trained to double tap and it's become instinct now.The .40 is slow for that second shot.Instead of 2 in chest i was getting 1 in the chest and 1 in the collarbone. With the newer 9mm ammo companies are getting similar ballistics with both rounds..40 does penetrate a little deeper though but wound size is similar. To me having 2-3 extra rounds is more important than a more powerful round.Also having an accurate second shot is very important. You can't compare the two when using solid ball ammo though. FBI decided on the 9mm again because accuracy dropped when they went over to .40. Units that use a SMG's are still sticking to .40 and .45 as backup weapons. Unless you destroy the brain or heart the caliber will make no difference.Get what you want, with decent expanding ammo and train properly.Good post 9mm is very effective if you know what you are doing. Shot placement and ammo choice can make a huge difference. I Carried Magtech Guardian Gold 115+P for a lot of years. They became hard to find and I switched to Hornady Critical Duty 135+P about a year ago. My EDC pistol is a G19C. Being compensated to tame the recoil a bit I get very accurate groups and also much better second shot placements when double tapping. gummibear 1
forkie Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 You can't compare the two when using solid ball ammo though. please explain further.
GrahamS2 Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 please explain further. When you take expansion out of the damage equation (FMJ), it simply comes down to projectile weight x velocity to determine energy transfer to the target. A .40 is a significantly heavier round than a 9mmP... gummibear and forkie 2
johnson Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 please explain further. There's loads of Youtube videos comparing FMJ to JHP. JHP is designed to expand on impact and cause a lot of damage as it penetrates a subject.There is a reason why FMJ is referred to as "range ammo" and JHP as "self defence ammo". You will immediately notice it as well when you compare their prices.
johnson Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 When you take expansion out of the damage equation (FMJ), it simply comes down to projectile weight x velocity to determine energy transfer to the target. A .40 is a significantly heavier round than a 9mmP...I Would rather go to a gun fight with a 9mm loaded with JHP than a 10mm or .40 loaded with FMJ. DJR and gummibear 2
gummibear Posted November 1, 2018 Posted November 1, 2018 Good post 9mm is very effective if you know what you are doing. Shot placement and ammo choice can make a huge difference. I Carried Magtech Guardian Gold 115+P for a lot of years. They became hard to find and I switched to Hornady Critical Duty 135+P about a year ago. My EDC pistol is a G19C. Being compensated to tame the recoil a bit I get very accurate groups and also much better second shot placements when double tapping. I like Federal ammo for my pistol and Hornady for my riffles. I was using 135gr Hydra- Shok in my Glock but changed to 147gr HST on my S&W.
GrahamS2 Posted November 1, 2018 Posted November 1, 2018 I Would rather go to a gun fight with a 9mm loaded with JHP than a 10mm or .40 loaded with FMJ. Oh for sure. But for identical FMJ ammo the .40 is going to generate more energy. I've never been too interested in caliber debates, because in a gun fight it doesn't really matter if you're holding a 9mm, 9mmP, .40, .45, or whatever. What matters is that you actually have it on you and that you can use it properly. Wannabe, forkie and gummibear 3
gummibear Posted November 1, 2018 Posted November 1, 2018 please explain further. Full metal Jacket (FMJ) or Ball ammo will most likely just pass straight through the suspect and may not even slow them down.Best to keep them for the range. Expanding ammo (JHP) will mushroom out and cause more internal damage and if you hit a vital organ drop the suspect on the spot.Less chance of hitting a bystander or family member by accident.Best for self-defence. Difference between 9mm FMJ and JHP.
eddy Posted November 1, 2018 Posted November 1, 2018 Just don't brag on the web about your JHP being a "Zombie Stopper" and then put a couple though your girlfriend....
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