Danger Dassie Posted February 14, 2022 Share 1 minute ago, TNT1 said: It's the same argument Dr Carl Hart uses about so called recreational drugs. If they weren't illegal, you would get a certified product and instructions on how to use it. Criminalizing things that people are going to do anyway, removes oversight completely, resulting in a poor and questionable product and even worse direction on it's use. Bring the things into the light and administer good quality products using the latest scientific best practice for their use. That's a completely false equivocation. There is a reason PEDs like other substances are not permitted, especially among school sports with still developing children. Because under medical science's best practice these aren't deemed healthy in the long term. Yyyy, DieselnDust and Julz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted February 14, 2022 Share Just now, TNT1 said: See my previous post. My position is that they should not be illegal in the first place. Ah.... so administering testosterone to an already imbalanced, developing pubescent kid should be legal and perfectly healthy? Or do we decide which PEDS are good and which not and just get them to take the good PEDS? Yyyy, ChrisF and Danger Dassie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Just now, Jewbacca said: Ah.... so administering testosterone to an already imbalanced, developing pubescent kid should be legal and perfectly healthy? Or do we decide which PEDS are good and which not and just get them to take the good PEDS? Scientific/medical best practice. Test isn't really a mystery anymore to the medical profession. Heck, they even have a decent grasp of SARMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share 4 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said: That's a completely false equivocation. There is a reason PEDs like other substances are not permitted, especially among school sports with still developing children. Because under medical science's best practice these aren't deemed healthy in the long term. Is that your reasoning why marijuana, cocaine, whatever is also illegal? I wonder why alcohol and cigarettes are legal. Funny that you think they're not healthy. I can go to any doctor right now, and complain of lack of performance and he will legally and ethically prescribe test/hgh/whatever to me, in the interest of anti-aging, and prolonging my life at a certain level. Edited February 14, 2022 by TNT1 DieselnDust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted February 14, 2022 Share 1 minute ago, TNT1 said: Scientific/medical best practice. Test isn't really a mystery anymore to the medical profession. Heck, they even have a decent grasp of SARMS. But then who is to say only the best PEDS are administered and by whom? Who makes sure only the right PEDS are administered? Aren't we then in exactly the same position as before, only MORE difficult to regulate? A school in Guguletu doesn't have the same access to meds, doctors and money as Bishops, so do Bishops get all the right stuff and Gugs not? Or do we start a national doping institute like Russia and make sure it's equal and fair distribution of PEDS to all? If you're not trolling, then I kind of despair at how you fail to see the knock on effects of 'legal' doping Yyyy, Scary Rider, Danger Dassie and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Dassie Posted February 14, 2022 Share Just now, TNT1 said: Is that your reasoning why marijuana, cocaine whatever is also illegal? Funny that you think they're not healthy. I can go to any doctor right now, and complain of lack of performance and he will legally and ethically prescribe test/hgh/whatever to me, in the interest of anti-aging, and prolonging my life at a certain level. No, I never made that reasoning at all, you did. I specifically mentioned PEDs and we're discussing in the context of children playing school sports. Not adults consulting a GP, even then they will prescribe within certain parameters. Do not make the mistake of prescribing to me in broad strokes what I think is or isn't healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share 2 minutes ago, Jewbacca said: But then who is to say only the best PEDS are administered and by whom? Who makes sure only the right PEDS are administered? Aren't we then in exactly the same position as before, only MORE difficult to regulate? A school in Guguletu doesn't have the same access to meds, doctors and money as Bishops, so do Bishops get all the right stuff and Gugs not? Or do we start a national doping institute like Russia and make sure it's equal and fair distribution of PEDS to all? If you're not trolling, then I kind of despair at how you fail to see the knock on effects of 'legal' doping The access gap already exists. I'm not sure what you mean by more difficult to regulate, when the ped issue is currently 100% unregulated. Any control would be better than the free for all that exists now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share 1 minute ago, Danger Dassie said: No, I never made that reasoning at all, you did. I specifically mentioned PEDs and we're discussing in the context of children playing school sports. Not adults consulting a GP, even then they will prescribe within certain parameters. Do not make the mistake of prescribing to me in broad strokes what I think is or isn't healthy. No need to get salty. We're allowed to disagree. Jewbacca 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Dassie Posted February 14, 2022 Share 4 minutes ago, TNT1 said: No need to get salty. We're allowed to disagree. Not at all, simply called out the unnecessary behaviour in your response. So don’t suddenly cop feelings when called out on it. It’s entirely disingenuous. We are done here. ChrisF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted February 14, 2022 Share 2 minutes ago, TNT1 said: The access gap already exists. I'm not sure what you mean by more difficult to regulate, when the ped issue is currently 100% unregulated. Any control would be better than the free for all that exists now. Currently it's ALL illegal. So yes, it's easy to cheat, but it's also easy to see who is cheating. By opening it up, you're creating a massive grey area that comes with 'what was accepted when' as well as who is doing what and how. Currently, none of it is legal, so the access to illegal substances and PED is less important as those with less access are not legally disadvantaged. Seriously, if you can't see the timeline platform this gives people to operate outside of 'the best peds now' and the dangers it creates for kids then whoa.... I really do hope you're just trolling. I'm out though. Kids shouldn't be influenced into taking drugs by anyone and the thought of being so competitive that you think it's ok for 14 year olds to be 'win at all costs' is disturbing. I guess I'm seriously kumbaya by the candles then. Trashy, DieselnDust, Scary Rider and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yyyy Posted February 14, 2022 Share 44 minutes ago, TNT1 said: 99% of peds, administered under proper supervision have almost zero side effects. To suggest criminal sanction is laughable. genuinely interested in case studies (even if only in observational research) where this is the case......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share 19 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said: Not at all, simply called out the unnecessary behaviour in your response. So don’t suddenly cop feelings when called out on it. It’s entirely disingenuous. We are done here. Asking if your opinion on one thing is the same as your opinion on another is disingenuous? Ok. I'll have to look up that word again. Danger Dassie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share 19 minutes ago, Jewbacca said: Currently it's ALL illegal. So yes, it's easy to cheat, but it's also easy to see who is cheating. By opening it up, you're creating a massive grey area that comes with 'what was accepted when' as well as who is doing what and how. Currently, none of it is legal, so the access to illegal substances and PED is less important as those with less access are not legally disadvantaged. Seriously, if you can't see the timeline platform this gives people to operate outside of 'the best peds now' and the dangers it creates for kids then whoa.... I really do hope you're just trolling. I'm out though. Kids shouldn't be influenced into taking drugs by anyone and the thought of being so competitive that you think it's ok for 14 year olds to be 'win at all costs' is disturbing. I guess I'm seriously kumbaya by the candles then. The problem is that it is currently not easy to see who is doping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted February 14, 2022 Share Just now, TNT1 said: The problem is that it is currently not easy to see who is doping. Is it not? It's a bit disturbing if they can accurately say that the right PEDS administered correctly are 99% not dangerous, have such an understanding of testosterone and how to use it in pubescent kids safely etc but can't for the life of them tell who is doping or not..... It's also a lot easier to spot any anomaly vs trying to spot which anomaly is legal and the best anomaly while cross referencing said findings with 'the best PEDS' on a timeline. (Because as we know, these change often). I have really tried, but I just can't picture a world where kids taking PEDS legally is a good one dave303e, ChrisF and Danger Dassie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashy Posted February 14, 2022 Share 9 minutes ago, TNT1 said: The problem is that it is currently not easy to see who is doping. It is currently very easy to see who in this thread is doped up. Jewbacca, ChrisF, peetwindhoek and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share 20 minutes ago, Trashy said: It is currently very easy to see who in this thread is doped up. It's not me, so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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