Dopers suck

[Jewbacca]

This article sums it up pretty well;

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/05/lance-armstrong-floyd-landis/556868/

I always saw him as so beaten and bullied by Armstrong. In the interview when he breaks down and just shakes and sobs when asked about Lance denying his claims and calling him a liar, you can see the frustration and just absolute defeat of injustice burning away.

Was he a cheat? Yes. But he set in motion the downfall of Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel and is instrumental in kickstarting what is seen as 'the big clean up' of the pro peleton.

 

[Eldron]

8 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Your memory is a bit patchy over the facts on this one. A quick google and you'll see everyone else calls him the whistleblower that brought down the Armstrong legacy.

This from a man that thought "I don't think he came out of it with much $$$."....    Fun fact - he also got another $1.65m in lawyers fee - a total of $2.75m. Not much $$$ indeed....

Landis may have been a key witness but he was only one of 11 former team mates involved (as well as many, many others).

Google David Walsh and Travis Tygart.

 

 

[jcza]

Landis filed a Qui Tam in which private individuals who assist a prosecution can receive for themselves all or part of the damages. Was a smart move. 

[TheoG]

17 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

This article sums it up pretty well;

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/05/lance-armstrong-floyd-landis/556868/

I always saw him as so beaten and bullied by Armstrong. In the interview when he breaks down and just shakes and sobs when asked about Lance denying his claims and calling him a liar, you can see the frustration and just absolute defeat of injustice burning away.

Was he a cheat? Yes. But he set in motion the downfall of Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel and is instrumental in kickstarting what is seen as 'the big clean up' of the pro peleton.

 

That's all good and well, but what assurance do we have that "the pro peloton is clean" now?  Maybe I'm the only one, but, not so sure about that ....

[amac]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

bit hard to hate the whistleblower

I don't think he came out of it with much $$$.

 

Seem to recall that US Postal sued Lance and he stood to earn a commission on whatever was recovered. He stated he would use the money to start his team.

[Jewbacca]

6 minutes ago, TheoG said:

That's all good and well, but what assurance do we have that "the pro peloton is clean" now?  Maybe I'm the only one, but, not so sure about that ....

That's not really the point here and now though.

Eldron is arguing that Landis 'wasn't a whistle blower' but he clearly was.

I firmly believe that most world tour riders and teams are cheating the system in some way. I don't really care. I don't know anyone and watch cycling for entertainment value. The racing is exciting at the moment so it's rad.

If X or Y gets caught, I don't actually care. I'm not emotionally invested in the protagonists, but thoroughly enjoy watching them duke it out.

Pro sport is ugly under the surface. The amount of money thrown around and the tiny performance margins make it so. 

Rugby, cricket, cycling, you name it.... There is cheating and there is always going to be

[Eldron]

12 minutes ago, jcza said:

Landis filed a Qui Tam in which private individuals who assist a prosecution can receive for themselves all or part of the damages. Was a smart move. 

He is a smart/sneaky operator - the Floyd Fairness Fund also netted him almost $500,000.

Sadly for him he had to pay it back to avoid being prosecuted. Armstrong should have donated then filed his own False Claims suit... Landis 1 - Armstrong 0

[TheoG]

Just now, Jewbacca said:

That's not really the point here and now though.

Eldron is arguing that Landis 'wasn't a whistle blower' but he clearly was.

I firmly believe that most world tour riders and teams are cheating the system in some way. I don't really care. I don't know anyone and watch cycling for entertainment value. The racing is exciting at the moment so it's rad.

If X or Y gets caught, I don't actually care. I'm not emotionally invested in the protagonists, but thoroughly enjoy watching them duke it out.

Pro sport is ugly under the surface. The amount of money thrown around and the tiny performance margins make it so. 

Rugby, cricket, cycling, you name it.... There is cheating and there is always going to be

  All very valid points ....

[Eldron]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

 

Eldron is arguing that Landis 'wasn't a whistle blower' but he clearly was.

 

Yeah - I phrased that badly - he was a whistle blower and I have no problem with that (hell I encourage it). What I should have said is that I don't think Landis wouldn't have said a word if there wasn't a stack of cash in it for him.

Over 50 people gave evidence in that trial - only 1 (to my knowledge) stood to gain financially from it.

Money grabbing, doping, lying, cheating, fraud - Landis has the full spectrum of douchery covered.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Eldron

[Jewbacca]

1 minute ago, Eldron said:

Yeah - I phrased that badly - he was a whistle blower and I have no problem with that (hell I encourage it).

Over 50 people gave evidence in that trial - only 1 (to my knowledge) stood to gain financially from it.

Money grabbing, doping, lying, cheating, fraud - Landis has the full spectrum of douchery covered.

He now grows Marijuana!

From drugs to drugs!

The law has decided he was definitely wronged by Lance. Reading some interviews it seems he has made peace with himself and the situation. I like how honest and open he is, even about how far down the drunk/drugs/depression/psychotic rabbit hole he went.

Much like Riccardo Ricco, who has also made peace with his own stupidity and greed and eventual loss.

I don't really dislike either of them. They both gave me immense joy while watching them do the impossible

[Eldron]

Just now, Jewbacca said:

He now grows Marijuana!

From drugs to drugs!

The law has decided he was definitely wronged by Lance. Reading some interviews it seems he has made peace with himself and the situation. I like how honest and open he is, even about how far down the drunk/drugs/depression/psychotic rabbit hole he went.

Much like Riccardo Ricco, who has also made peace with his own stupidity and greed and eventual loss.

I don't really dislike either of them. They both gave me immense joy while watching them do the impossible

Ahh Riccardo Ricco - watching him at the 2008 TdF rip the field to shreds was a thing of beauty - same as Landis' crazy solo TdF winning move. Armstrong giving Ullrich "the eye" in a drug fulled drag race up L'Alpe-d'Huez in 2001. There were many awesome moments in the dirty decade of cycling. Awesome at the time - awful later on.

For some reason Landis is the only one I take personally - I could probably forgive 1 or 2 or 3 of the things he did but dear god the sheer arseholery of his actions is epic.

The fact that he (and all the other lying, cheating dopers) are still making a living from doping does burn my piss a little. Him and Armstrong are the apex burners in my opinion.

[Jewbacca]

9 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Ahh Riccardo Ricco - watching him at the 2008 TdF rip the field to shreds was a thing of beauty - same as Landis' crazy solo TdF winning move. Armstrong giving Ullrich "the eye" in a drug fulled drag race up L'Alpe-d'Huez in 2001. There were many awesome moments in the dirty decade of cycling. Awesome at the time - awful later on.

For some reason Landis is the only one I take personally - I could probably forgive 1 or 2 or 3 of the things he did but dear god the sheer arseholery of his actions is epic.

The fact that he (and all the other lying, cheating dopers) are still making a living from doping does burn my piss a little. Him and Armstrong are the apex burners in my opinion.

hahahaha

Lance definitely, but Vino coming back to win the Olympic gold burns me more than Floyd.

I also loved watching Rassmussen hamster wheel himself over the mountains. 

Seeing all of them get their come uppance is just something that happened for me. The entertainment at the time was great.

But IMHO if the Olympics wants to keep flying it's 'Olympic Spirit' flag, dopers shouldn't be allowed to go. 

I hate the Olympics. It's personal for me as I was involved in a few. hahahaha just mentioning it has boiled my blood! 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Eldron said:

Landis wasn't a whistleblower

32 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Yeah - I phrased that badly - he was a whistle blower

That was a quick turnaround!

I respect the way Landis has owned up to his past. I believe (maybe wrongly) that he was the chief instigator behind the Armstrong lie falling, he was the one that got Tygart onto the case with a smoking gun affidavit.

I also don't think he is that motivated by money, reports are that he didn't make the windfall you think he did.

I totally respect that he has people that will never forgive him, it looks like he's ok with that.

 

 

 

[jcza]

1 hour ago, Eldron said:

Yeah - I phrased that badly - he was a whistle blower and I have no problem with that (hell I encourage it). What I should have said is that I don't think Landis wouldn't have said a word if there wasn't a stack of cash in it for him.

Over 50 people gave evidence in that trial - only 1 (to my knowledge) stood to gain financially from it.

Money grabbing, doping, lying, cheating, fraud - Landis has the full spectrum of douchery covered.

Poured the money back into cycling. 

Like I said earlier, we get good dopers and bad dopers.  

[Eldron]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

That was a quick turnaround!

I respect the way Landis has owned up to his past. I believe (maybe wrongly) that he was the chief instigator behind the Armstrong lie falling, he was the one that got Tygart onto the case with a smoking gun affidavit.

I also don't think he is that motivated by money, reports are that he didn't make the windfall you think he did.

I totally respect that he has people that will never forgive him, it looks like he's ok with that.

 

 

 

On the plus side I turned around - are you still in the "I don't think he came out of it with much $$$." camp when he received $1.1m in addition to the the $1,65m lawyers fees?

If he had fessed up before he got popped/during his popping or shortly after his popping I would happily agree with you but he didn't. Instead he went the Omerta route, bankrupted himself then started a fund to defend himself - he even called it the Fairness Fund knowing full well he was lying through his teeth. He only came around when the final axe had fallen and he sniffed money....

The other 49 people that gave evidence didn't get rewarded.....he did.

He said he used drugs because of Lance - then continued using drugs well after Lance.

He may well be sorry and want to make up for it but too little too late in my book. Him and Lance and all the other doping liars should be banned from the sport for life. 

The fact that they all still make money based on cheating and lies is wrong. The fact that they do is a poor reflection on the people that support them.

[Eldron]

1 hour ago, jcza said:

Poured the money back into cycling. 

Like I said earlier, we get good dopers and bad dopers.  

All the money he made and is making is based on being a doper. Not good enough in my book.

Better than nothing but he can never make up for what he did - at best he can limit some of the damage but I don't feel he should get an ounce of praise.

As long as we support dopers post doping - doping will continue.