Pure Savage Posted October 6, 2016 Author Posted October 6, 2016 The reason why young kids can't 'get into' the competitive sport of cycling isn't that much about safety, more about cost. I keep asking myself: "Would I rather spend +-R400 (entry, nutrition, transport) on 3 hours of cycling, or would I buy PC games, case of beer, speakers etc?" I feel it is because old toppies keep buying overpriced bikes (fueling the price increase) and keep entering overpriced R400 events (fueling the price increase). Nothing can be done about this however. Instead of offering prize money to younger riders, I would suggest that they rather get subsidized entries to these events. If there was a league that would only cost me R100 a race, I would definitely do it. Read: Not watered down 40 km races where U'18s get bunched with U'13s. M 2c Agreed, it also needs to be regular, like every weekend, or twice a weekend, otherwise kids get bored and do other stuff. Problem is a lot of schools do the whole sport on the weekend vibe. My wife is adamant though that little Kittel will not ride with me on the road because its too dangerous. Going to have to sneak early morning rides while she is asleep.
Velouria Posted October 6, 2016 Posted October 6, 2016 Please read all my post on this topic: Page 1: "If there is proper prize money been paid that softens the blow to the entry - even if you don't think you will win any off it. Kind of like playing the Lottery." Page 2: "I will quite happily ride Killarney on a Thursday night (entry R40.00 no white line rules DQ’s and an Ambulance never far away if needed) and even make a sizeable donation to the organiser to improve the prize purse for the racing guys.” Page 2: "My belief is if they keep the entry what it is then prize money should have at least 1 more Zero so Elite & U23 win R4000.00 etc esp in this cat (I am a vet).” Page 2: "Think if the Elite / U23 league (I think it should be called the OPEN league / qualification by seeding) were given relatively decent prize money let say 1st R5000, 2nd R3500, 3rd R2000, 4th R1000, 5th R750 and 6th to 10th all R500 for example the prize money for the Race would be R14 750 - R13850 extra.” So Velouria - do you think the prize money is about me, a 44 year old man, or about the sport of cycling and the youth aspiring to race and be rewarded for there effort? Surely a little vision by the administrator would lead to the question. If we wanna be serious about the sustainability of the sport, we need to get the youth involved in the sport and possible take the steps to show it to be a proper profession? At R400 for a win it cannot be regarded as a profession considering entry and transport on most occasions will cost more! Without hero's in a sport that sport does not become main stream (always a Cinderella sport). With hero you create a greater awareness which translates to more participation which in cycling means more bums on bike for whatever reason from commuting to racing. On a side note - please remember the current TDF champion has done the Giro del Capo along with many other TDF ride - there once was a committee who had vision and grew the sport but for the past few years that has not been the case. I can assure you even events like the Cape Town cycle tour are attracting an ageing population - what happened to invest in the future (not me - way too old)? As per a song by Faithless “You don't need eyes to see, you need vision” something seriously lacking in the past few year by the PPA committee - look at the membership number etc And yet we had over 10 000 school kids riding the Spur MTB league in 2016, and try as I might, I couldn't find any mention of prize money. My argument is that prize money alone will not fix cycling. Take the money and put on a good event. If everyone feels like they got a good deal, then all parties walk away happy. PPA are caught between a rock and a hard place. This is their mandate:We still aim to be a representative body for the furtherance of the interests of cyclists.We still aim to promote cycling as a recreational activity, a sport and as a means of transportation.We still aim to improve conditions for cyclists with particular regard to their safety.We still arrange and organise cycle tours, fun rides and outings, and assist other bodies to do the same.We still establish contact and liaise with other organisations with similar interests and objectives.Bodies like CSA and WPCA are responsible for growing the competitive side of the sport, and in an ideal world, all parties should work together for the better of our sport. PPA hooks the kids, teaches them safety, and lets them have fun, but WPCA provide the pathway for them to become competitive cyclists. A pipe dream. There is currently a vacuum in terms of sports development, in all sports, and PPA is trying, but it's not their sole job. Its to dangerous for kids to be out on a bike these days ... (apparently). We grew up cycling everywhere, car was only there when it rained and parents not working... if bike broken, you fix it or walk. These days its mommy and daddy / uber taking kids everywhere, don't even know if they own a bicycle anymore. Maybe zwift can help out on the tech/safety part, but won' help with bunch riding Kids are on bikes, just not riding to school, to the shops, to the dam to catch tadpoles... (The same can be said of adults - commuting to work or riding to the shops to buy milk is seen as socially deviant!)
Karman de Lange Posted October 6, 2016 Posted October 6, 2016 The reason why young kids can't 'get into' the competitive sport of cycling isn't that much about safety, more about cost. I keep asking myself: "Would I rather spend +-R400 (entry, nutrition, transport) on 3 hours of cycling, or would I buy PC games, case of beer, speakers etc?" I feel it is because old toppies keep buying overpriced bikes (fueling the price increase) and keep entering overpriced R400 events (fueling the price increase). Nothing can be done about this however. Instead of offering prize money to younger riders, I would suggest that they rather get subsidized entries to these events. If there was a league that would only cost me R100 a race, I would definitely do it. Read: Not watered down 40 km races where U'18s get bunched with U'13s. M 2c Don't know why this is in the League topic, but anyway Spur MTB races is R 60 - 80 each. 500 kids entered across 16 distances/categories.. All do laps on short course and you race against your own age/gender. Why are these events not more attended? Its cheap, fun and takes a hour or two of kids/parents day to do the race . I personally think if kids cycled more, they would be more inclined to cycle more.
JanJan Posted October 6, 2016 Posted October 6, 2016 Don't know why this is in the League topic, but anyway Spur MTB races is R 60 - 80 each. 500 kids entered across 16 distances/categories.. All do laps on short course and you race against your own age/gender. Why are these events not more attended? Its cheap, fun and takes a hour or two of kids/parents day to do the race . I personally think if kids cycled more, they would be more inclined to cycle more. Sorry, I don't know why I mentioned 'kids' . I actually mean young adults between 18-25 who would like to race in the league. When you need to either commit to cycling as your choice of time- and money-expenditure, or leave it as a side-line hobby.
Karman de Lange Posted October 6, 2016 Posted October 6, 2016 Sorry, I don't know why I mentioned 'kids' . I actually mean young adults between 18-25 who would like to race in the league. When you need to either commit to cycling as your choice of time- and money-expenditure, or leave it as a side-line hobby.18-25 .. .booze and women.. who want to cycle ?????
HdB Posted October 6, 2016 Posted October 6, 2016 The reason why young kids can't 'get into' the competitive sport of cycling isn't that much about safety, more about cost. I keep asking myself: "Would I rather spend +-R400 (entry, nutrition, transport) on 3 hours of cycling, or would I buy PC games, case of beer, speakers etc?" I feel it is because old toppies keep buying overpriced bikes (fueling the price increase) and keep entering overpriced R400 events (fueling the price increase). Nothing can be done about this however. Instead of offering prize money to younger riders, I would suggest that they rather get subsidized entries to these events. If there was a league that would only cost me R100 a race, I would definitely do it. Read: Not watered down 40 km races where U'18s get bunched with U'13s. M 2c I don't think the entry-level bikes have increased that much in price, and kids certainly do NOT need R40k carbon-everything bikes to be able to ride/race.My first road bike, in standard 6, was a second-hand Alpina with pipe-shifters and toe-straps, and cost something like R1200. I didn't know many kids riding at provincial level at that stage who had brand new bikes. But we raced, and for no prize money.The cost of a new entry-level bike isn't much more than the cost of a PS4, and just as the kids outgrow the bike, the PS4 gets outdated. The event entry fees, that is a problem I think; not because of old toppies fuelling overpriced events, but simply because the cost to run an event has ballooned, thanks to insurance, traffic department costs, etc.Subsidising it for kids might be a good idea, but that probably means the adults will have to pay more - people complain about the entry fees enough as it is. And then, tied to the event cost, due to events being so much more expensive, there are less events (at least here). There used to be some church or similar presenting a race pretty much every weekend, now they are quite scarce. Which means less racing against each other. Somehow, even if it is via hillclimbs or criteriums which might require significantly less money, we need to have more events where kids can compete locally and then against other schools/provinces.
Icycling Posted October 6, 2016 Posted October 6, 2016 And yet we had over 10 000 school kids riding the Spur MTB league in 2016, and try as I might, I couldn't find any mention of prize money. My argument is that prize money alone will not fix cycling. Take the money and put on a good event. If everyone feels like they got a good deal, then all parties walk away happy. I have not suggesting giving the school kids prize money. Why is MTB (outside of PPA) doing so well? A lot more prize money and some of the kids aspire one day to make a living out of this. Why ride a road bike - it will "never pay the bills" at local racing level! To be honest the standard of RSA MTB racers is not even that high (some of my friend will shoot me for saying that), but how well do RSA MTB rider do on the world stage in cross country event and when last did a RSA rider win the Cape Epic? Most of the good MTB rider in RSA started racing on the road 1st. Even this year when I managed the Lights by Linea team at Knysna Jame Tennant who had never done a proper MTB race could finish 5th in the Elite MTB race. He is considering quitting road riding for MTB riding as there way more potential to win decent prize money along with other riders on the team. I have seen this over a number of years that road racer go to mountain bike not because they necessary want to but because they can earn proper prize money in RSA - basically the only reason! A number of these MTB rider never / hardly ever ride PPA MTB funride as there is no prize money. PPA through their events like the Giro del Capo once were very active in developing road riders world wide, many later road the TDF. I even sometime ask myself the question would have Froome ever even have aspired to been the world best tour rider if it was not for this event (Giro del Capo) along with other road event offering prize money in RSA? Is this really a pipe dream?
Mopkop Posted October 7, 2016 Posted October 7, 2016 We need this again These where my race numbers 13 odd years ago that I found in the cupboard I remember racing against Johan Van Zyl and Jaco Venter during these PPA Leagues. It was brilliant. I dont even think we paid more for races compared to the non league riders, you just registered in the beginning of the season and that was that. I feel that if you can get the kid to race the Dad/Mom is forced to be there which would probably put them on the bike too, growing the sport/industry even more. Why not just give the top 3 their entry money back, this will already make it attractive for the scholar leagues as parents would then only need to to sort out logistics. Get an overall sponsor who can give something towards the top 10 whether this is kit, free servicing or even prize money if you can but get the kids into the swing of things. Hope they can sort something out. I dont even know what to say about the proposed league for us older guys
Mopkop Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Briefly went through the rules now and it seems you cannot race elites/u23 if youre seeded D and below. This is kinda crap if youre not seeded there but you'd like to give it a try
Karman de Lange Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Briefly went through the rules now and it seems you cannot race elites/u23 if youre seeded D and below. This is kinda crap if youre not seeded there but you'd like to give it a try Drop them email .. they adjusted my seeding up by 1 , but mine dropped D to F as I did not race last 7 months, so they upped it to E to fall in to Vets E
'Dale Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Briefly went through the rules now and it seems you cannot race elites/u23 if youre seeded D and below. This is kinda crap if youre not seeded there but you'd like to give it a tryMost likely, the D rider will last 8 minutes when the Elite bunch zip off at 4 w/kg from the 1st minute #truthcoffee It's really eina
Pure Savage Posted October 10, 2016 Author Posted October 10, 2016 Most likely, the D rider will last 8 minutes when the Elite bunch zip off at 4 w/kg from the 1st minute #truthcoffee It's really eina Maybe not, a little birdie says there is less than 20 riders registered for the elite league. And none of the league bunches bigger than 20 at the moment and cut off was today. Also no registration for league on the day. Maybe the R600 put too many people off... Either going to be some unhappy campers come race day or the league will be caught by A.
Icycling Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Maybe not, a little birdie says there is less than 20 riders registered for the elite league. And none of the league bunches bigger than 20 at the moment and cut off was today. Also no registration for league on the day. Maybe the R600 put too many people off... Either going to be some unhappy campers come race day or the league will be caught by A.The only unhappy campers, if your info is correct, should be the PPA (PPA 2015/16 committee and staff) as this is a true sign they have failed road cycling! Well that's my opinion!
BMCfan Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Maybe not, a little birdie says there is less than 20 riders registered for the elite league. And none of the league bunches bigger than 20 at the moment and cut off was today. Also no registration for league on the day. Maybe the R600 put too many people off... Either going to be some unhappy campers come race day or the league will be caught by A. Got followed by PPA on twitter today, maybe they want me to enter their league .... ... Not gonna happen ....
KidCharlemagne Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Maybe not, a little birdie says there is less than 20 riders registered for the elite league. And none of the league bunches bigger than 20 at the moment and cut off was today. Also no registration for league on the day. Maybe the R600 put too many people off... Either going to be some unhappy campers come race day or the league will be caught by A.I'm told cut off is extended to Thursday 13th.
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