conversations with a table mountain mugger - groundup article

[LazyTrailRider]

The origin of crime is Satan the devil, the evil in man.

 

OMGIDBI.

[Wannabe]

The origin of crime is Satan the devil, the evil in man.

 

 

OH NO, YOU DID NOT JUST DO THIS !!!!  

 

Now this is going to turn into a religious debate.

[Barry_W]

Now that I find to be an interesting moral discussion, how do a journalist get a intimate window into a criminal's world without being tainted by his actions.

 

Similar to that journalist that took a photo of the Ethiopian baby dying of hunger with the vulture patiently waiting, should he rather have helped than take a photo and make money of it?

 

Like groundup themselves has said, there would be good arguments both ways.

I tried to resist but the statement above made me. Its called journalism and whether we like it or not in order to report from outside the law you need to suspend judgment and simply tell the story otherwise we, the public, would never have any idea about what really goes on and live in ignorance. The author was not romanticizing the gangster just reporting on what he found to give us, the public, some understanding of what is going on.

 

Now what we do with this information is our own decision, whether we have empathy to try and change the society, just give up the bike (like a previous poster said because he now understands how it could end if he did not) or go out with a 9mm and commit violence of our own. All these actions are based on the information that this reporter gave us. That is what journalism does.

 

I was now going to point to the link to the real story of Kevin Carters picture but can see others have. It proves a point though, cropping an image can change the context entirely, as with any "fact"

[Serious Panda]

OH NO, YOU DID NOT JUST DO THIS !!!!  

 

Now this is going to turn into a religious debate.

 

It was always a spiritual debate for me, this is why I do not like all these worldly "excuses" for bad actions of a bad person.

[Mamil]

Robbie - no-one is justifying Norton's abhorrent behaviour - the main point here is that societies in which their is a wide gap between wealthy and poor and where this gap is increasing and where there is a history of systematic oppression are premised on violence and create violence. If Norton confronts me I will try to stifle my natural response which seems to be to fight him, hand over my goods to save  and claim on my insurance.

 

Your being born in the space you were at the time you were most definitely privileged you. That doesn't justify crime in any way but it does make it comprehensible when we see how few members of our population have access to a stable community, family and economic life.

 

There are innumerable fathers in our country who themselves were not fathered. 

 

Put it another way - the difficulties of raising a child who does not get addicted, completes school, works hard, believes in an ordered and just universe are very different if one lives in Plumstead than they are in Lavender Hills. 

 

This isn't saying it's your fault. It's asking you to understand the predicament in which millions of South Africans live.

 

 

I hear you Mamil, but to say that because I drive an expensive car, and live in a nice house in a nice suburb, is justification enough for Norton (or anyone who does not have what I do) to go about his daily crime spree?

 

is that not a bit far fetched?

Or is it meant as a means to make me feel guilty the next time I go for a pedal? Yes, there is a massive gap between rich and poor, but does that make the extreme behavior of a minority okay? 

Scenario: You go for a ride on the weekend on your 30k bike (which I am still drooling about, as I surely cannot chuck so much cash at a nice bike yet.) Norton is waiting for you, and tells you to lie down and hand over your 30k bike with your 1.4k tyres and your 7k GPS and your 12k iPhone 7. Are you going to feel better about it because you were relieved of your material wealth because you are a privileged upper-class white, by an under privileged, previously disadvantaged male pointing a gun at your face, or kid, or wife?

 

I would like to know how my being a privileged white was due their affording it to me? because you see, my dad worked himself ragged to give me what I have today. Not material wealth, but morals, intelligence, a good education, a functional family life, and all these matter, and contribute to make me who I am today. To say that this makes me a target for the Norton's of the world, because it's somehow my/our fault he CHOSE his lot in life, because tik was too easy and soccer was too hard, is a slap in my face, as well as that of my pa, who today carries the physical scars of the hard graft it took him to provide the best for his boys.

I do not have children, sadly. But will ANY father please stand up who will NOT do the same for their kids.

[Mamil]

Read the thread again

 

So because the people Camps Bay spend more on bottled water than I earn in a year, can I just go and rob them because l feel ENTITLED to that?? If they flash their multi-million rand cars and expensive clothing around lower income suburbs does that ENTITLE other to steal from them? 

 

Trust me, none of these muggers are robbing people just to put bread on the table. It's a simple combination of greed, entitlement, and a complete lack of consequences (displayed in its purest form by the highest power in the country, Zuma).

[Serious Panda]

Robbie - no-one is justifying Norton's abhorrent behaviour - the main point here is that societies in which blah blah nonsense...

 

I used the word "justification" and this is not the correct word. "Making excuses" is the more correct term, that is what you seem to be doing.

[Capricorn]

The origin of crime is Satan the devil, the evil in man.

So Hansie was actually the victim.... of satanic manipulation? No free will to make his own choices wrt right and wrong?

[Serious Panda]

So Hansie was actually the victim.... of satanic manipulation? No free will to make his own choices wrt right and wrong?

 

No he was not the victim of some outside force, he used his own free will and chose to adhere to the evil in him, the beast of man.

[NickGM]

I used the word "justification" and this is not the correct word. "Making excuses" is the more correct term, that is what you seem to be doing.

That's cool. Whenever I do anything wrong I'm going to use Satan as an excuse. 

 

Have another nesquick and blame it on Beelzebub. 

[MTBeer]

http://sqd.ru/files/a/h3.jpg

 

I heard my name....

[Dry Biltong]

There are surely better choices for Norton to make. 

[Wannabe]

It is not always about the conditions you are in, but the choices you make.

 

Case in point:

My Niece and her Husband both grew up on Mining Villages in the North West. Although they were not "rich" they had nothing lacking, education, decent upbringing, Fathers present and involved in their lives, etc.

He got involved with the wrong crowd, booze and drugs were in the order of the day. He dragged my niece into his sordid lifestyle, and they both become complete druggies. So much so that they both lost their jobs, their house and their two kids.

 

She tried her best to turn her life around, and divorced him. She is on the road to recovery, but still down and out. We are supporting her as much as we can.

He on the other hand blamed everyone except himself, and is now a bum, living on the street, with a criminal record and more in court than out of it.

 

Both had the same choice, choose to become drug users, and ultimately junkies.

They again had choices, she took the right one, he did not. And as they say, the rest is history.

[Bicyclegear]

The whole piece smells of sensationalism and the need for people to read as opposed to be informed!

 

Hout Bay mountain bikers have been held to ransom by these criminals. We have got such great possibilities for riding trails in our beautiful bay, but are too scared to out of fear or being mugged.

 

This guy needs to be brought to justice! The question whether the journalist/writer is prepared to sell his subject "down the river" for the greater good.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The origin of crime is Satan the devil, the evil in man.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I used the word "justification" and this is not the correct word. "Making excuses" is the more correct term, that is what you seem to be doing.

Wrong again.