Why Do I See So Many Cyclist Without Helmets?

[geoffois]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25871491/?i=2&from=/26786638/related

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24158210/?i=8&from=/25871491/related

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26254573/?i=2&from=/24158210/related

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8971066/?i=4&from=/26254573/related

 

The list goes on, but I think this covers most of your points of contention

 

 

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[Skubarra]

At this point in time and with the research conducted there is no absolute proof that statistically helmets make any difference, some data indicates it does, and some data indicates it potentially promotes injury and death.

 

I'm curious, so what does all the studies you read put out as reasons that helmets are not effective?

 

Only ones I have noticed from your posts are that people may have a false sense of security and more people died since helmets were introduced.

 

Interestingly - I think the same thinking can be applied to safety features in cars (false security), yet I don't see a backlash against safety features in cars - I assume if cars don't have any safety features we would all drive slower and there would be less accidents?

 

In my biased opinion the "false sense of security" idea is a human behavior issue not a reflection on the effectiveness of a helmet in an accident.

['Dale]

Is Thu the new Friday

????????????

#2017_trends

[IceCreamMan]

A little IQ test.

Question 1:

If dealt a rough hand in life and therefore required to headbutt a tree or light pole running at full pace would you go with or without a helmet affixed to your skull?

There is that inference again.

 

And I have been around enough IQ tests to know that is not one of the questions.

 

But the question is surely rhetorical and if not then it illustrates that you dear sir have actually missed the point to my posts.

[geoffois]

Although, have a look at the studies I've listed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24158210/?i=24&from=/26786638/related

Here they state that wearing a helmet may in fact be an indicator of safer riding practices... logic does correlate with observational studies! [emoji851]

 

 

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[IceCreamMan]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25871491/?i=2&from=/26786638/relatedhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24158210/?i=8&from=/25871491/relatedhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26254573/?i=2&from=/24158210/relatedhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8971066/?i=4&from=/26254573/related

The list goes on, but I think this covers most of your points of contention

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Interesting data, unfortunately 2 of the 4 links did not work when I tried to reach the sites. 1 of the 2 that did resolve certainly indicate and give much weight to the wear helmets brigade if read in isolation. The other actually lists numerous other factors and the wearing of a helmet kinda gets lost.

 

I could see yr links with others that refute these findings but what's the point.

[geoffois]

I certainly have not found any articles from reputable, peer reviewed sources that contradict any and all of these studies. I would really appreciate a link to your studies, if there is contradictory evidence I would (completely honestly) like to read them.

My apologies about the links not working, I have been copying from a subscription site.

 

 

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[Mamil]

Wait ... don't tell me ... I know this one ... 

 

Is it - I need to read at least three peer reviewed articles in professional journals showing that the pain will be less before I put the helmet on. .....?

 

no ... that's not it ... I'll get it ... I know - it's I won't wear the helmet and anyone who advises me to do that is an opinionated ass who should mind his own business?

 

 

A little IQ test.

Question 1:

If dealt a rough hand in life and therefore required to headbutt a tree or light pole running at full pace would you go with or without a helmet affixed to your skull?

[MJ the Expat]

Maybe a little off topic, I dunno yet.

 

In one of the Freakonomics books, the authors conducted a study on the lifes saved with kids seats in cars.

 

They found that a child between 2 and 6 is no more safe in a car seat as what he would be just wearing a seat belt.

 

Now the part that I really find interesting is the question they asked: If children usually sit in the back of cars, why are modern cars not designed to accommodate children safely and thus do away with child seats?

 

Anyway, I wear a helmet not because I believe it will save my life, but because it may not safe my life but it will sure is feck prevent some scars when going full tilt under some low hanging branches.

And it gives me a place to safely put my shades should they get dirty.

 

EDIT: Actually it is relevant. People use car seats because they believe the child it safer with it.

You wear a helmet for the same reason.

It is irrespective whether any of the above actually does safe lives. You only need to believe that it does.

#powerbalance

Edited January 5, 2017 by The real MJ

[MSquared]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/423a343661ce619d2f1eb11a74ff6e1f.jpg

[IceCreamMan]

After a lil run I realise that many have fixated on the accident and view the accident as the be all and end all and therein lies the flaw so let me try and be clearer on this.

 

In the event of some kinds of accidents can helmets be of benefit. The answer is obviously yes. Asking a doctor whether helmets can save lives his answer can only be yes as he deals with the ramifications of accidents. (An injuries or reduce the severity of injuries)

So, if you ask me a specific question relating to accidents an the wearing of helmets I could chip in anecdotal evidence too and we would all agree and life would be good.

 

But, the world does not work like that an things rarely operate in isolation and this is where research tends to indicate that helmets do not in fact save lives or reduce injuries but may in fact promote them. Some May take more risks or go faster or feel invincible and this actually CAUSES more accidents. Then the issue that motorists in a study drove closer to cyclists wearing helmets than those not wearing helmets potentially causing more accidents. Other cyclists may also perceive you to be more proficient than you are and overtake closer etc. It's when viewed in this holistic light that the efficacy of helmets is not what it initially appears to be.

 

So if faced with the question as follows: if you ride a bike without a helmet you have a one in hundred chance of having an accident an one in a thousand chance of dying or if you wear a helmet you have a 2 in a chance of having an accident and one in a thousand chance of dying suddenly the response is not so simple.

 

Now, onto a different aspect but similar. It's is irrefutable that alcohol cause cycle accidents and the deaths of cyclists. I suspect alcohol probably causes more carnage to cyclists than the not wearing of helmets ,this is alcohol consumed by cyclists or vehicle drivers. I trust all you ous call out all your buds and everyone in society you see drinking an is going to drive or cycle as technically a single beer puts u over the legal limit.

[Skylark]

Wait ... don't tell me ... I know this one ...

 

Is it - I need to read at least three peer reviewed articles in professional journals showing that the pain will be less before I put the helmet on. .....?

 

no ... that's not it ... I'll get it ... I know - it's I won't wear the helmet and anyone who advises me to do that is an opinionated ass who should mind his own business?

This guy is headed for Mensa.

Congratulations!

[Skylark]

 

 

After a lil run I realise that many have fixated on the accident and view the accident as the be all and end all and therein lies the flaw so let me try and be clearer on this.

 

In the event of some kinds of accidents can helmets be of benefit. The answer is obviously yes. Asking a doctor whether helmets can save lives his answer can only be yes as he deals with the ramifications of accidents. (An injuries or reduce the severity of injuries)

So, if you ask me a specific question relating to accidents an the wearing of helmets I could chip in anecdotal evidence too and we would all agree and life would be good.

 

But, the world does not work like that an things rarely operate in isolation and this is where research tends to indicate that helmets do not in fact save lives or reduce injuries but may in fact promote them. Some May take more risks or go faster or feel invincible and this actually CAUSES more accidents. Then the issue that motorists in a study drove closer to cyclists wearing helmets than those not wearing helmets potentially causing more accidents. Other cyclists may also perceive you to be more proficient than you are and overtake closer etc. It's when viewed in this holistic light that the efficacy of helmets is not what it initially appears to be.

 

So if faced with the question as follows: if you ride a bike without a helmet you have a one in hundred chance of having an accident an one in a thousand chance of dying or if you wear a helmet you have a 2 in a chance of having an accident and one in a thousand chance of dying suddenly the response is not so simple.

 

Now, onto a different aspect but similar. It's is irrefutable that alcohol cause cycle accidents and the deaths of cyclists. I suspect alcohol probably causes more carnage to cyclists than the not wearing of helmets ,this is alcohol consumed by cyclists or vehicle drivers. I trust all you ous call out all your buds and everyone in society you see drinking an is going to drive or cycle as technically a single beer puts u over the legal limit.

Can you differentiate your foot from your elbow?

 

Because you are going so far down the rabbit hole based on conjecture you've left common sense long behind.

[IceCreamMan]

Can you differentiate your foot from your elbow?

Because you are going so far down the rabbit hole based on conjecture you've left common sense long behind.

I apologize sincerely for your inability to keep up but I can't type any slower sir.

[Velouria]

Crikey - at least people have come back from the holidays with a bit passion.

 

We're missing the forest for the trees here. Yes, helmets do prevent injuries and deaths, but cyclist deaths in SA are not a simple helmet vs no helmet issue. Car, trucks and taxis are injuring and killing cyclists regardless of whether they wear a helmet or not.

 

Calling people out on helmet use is victim blaming. The thing we should be focussing our new found holiday passion on is standing together as a cycling community and demanding safer infrastructure, better laws, and improved policing from our local and national governments.

 

Once the deaths and injuries by vehicles have stopped, we can turn on each other and have a go over helmet use.

[geoffois]

After a lil run I realise that many have fixated on the accident and view the accident as the be all and end all and therein lies the flaw so let me try and be clearer on this.

 

In the event of some kinds of accidents can helmets be of benefit. The answer is obviously yes. Asking a doctor whether helmets can save lives his answer can only be yes as he deals with the ramifications of accidents. (An injuries or reduce the severity of injuries)

So, if you ask me a specific question relating to accidents an the wearing of helmets I could chip in anecdotal evidence too and we would all agree and life would be good.

 

But, the world does not work like that an things rarely operate in isolation and this is where research tends to indicate that helmets do not in fact save lives or reduce injuries but may in fact promote them. Some May take more risks or go faster or feel invincible and this actually CAUSES more accidents. Then the issue that motorists in a study drove closer to cyclists wearing helmets than those not wearing helmets potentially causing more accidents. Other cyclists may also perceive you to be more proficient than you are and overtake closer etc. It's when viewed in this holistic light that the efficacy of helmets is not what it initially appears to be.

 

So if faced with the question as follows: if you ride a bike without a helmet you have a one in hundred chance of having an accident an one in a thousand chance of dying or if you wear a helmet you have a 2 in a chance of having an accident and one in a thousand chance of dying suddenly the response is not so simple.

 

Now, onto a different aspect but similar. It's is irrefutable that alcohol cause cycle accidents and the deaths of cyclists. I suspect alcohol probably causes more carnage to cyclists than the not wearing of helmets ,this is alcohol consumed by cyclists or vehicle drivers. I trust all you ous call out all your buds and everyone in society you see drinking an is going to drive or cycle as technically a single beer puts u over the legal limit.

In this country, a single beer (330ml) will not put you over the legal limit.

Yes, I call out people who drink and drive.

I deal with traumatic brain injuries often, and the consequences of which can be devastating. This is not an injury to be trifled with.

Follow up review of the data on the walker study that was mentioned found his data to be overstated and likely misinterpreted. The most revealing aspect of his published study seems to be proximity of cars to the rider related to rider distance from the curb... oh, and colour of the car.

Meta-analysis of trauma data clearly shows a lower ACCIDENT risk in helmet wearers, thus a lower risk of all incidents.

There is no controlled trial that I can find that shows an increase in risk taking behaviour when wearing helmets.

 

 

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