Why Do I See So Many Cyclist Without Helmets?

[Patchelicious]

I am very much for not telling people how to live. As long as their actions don't break rules and laws.

 

Any lawless action contributes to social degradation.

Or do we get to pick which laws obey?

[IceCreamMan]

I am very much for not telling people how to live. As long as their actions don't break rules and laws.

 

Any lawless action contributes to social degradation.

Or do we get to pick which laws obey?

Commendable.... I trust you obey all laws, never exceed the speed limit etc etc. an no I don't mean to be sanctimonious but no one obeys all the laws all of the time. its impossible.

 

I am not convinced that wearing a helmet is necessarily a good thing, sure it may help save a few but could possibly result in losing a few as well. The invincible feeling when you wear a helmet which causes you to go a little bit faster or taking that lil extra risk.

 

I really would love to see absolute statistics and data on the lives saved by wearing helmets...

 

Lastly, in this country i rarely trust the incumbent government with my well being.

[Patchelicious]

Commendable.... I trust you obey all laws, never exceed the speed limit etc etc. an no I don't mean to be sanctimonious but no one obeys all the laws all of the time. its impossible.

 

I am not convinced that wearing a helmet is necessarily a good thing, sure it may help save a few but could possibly result in losing a few as well. The invincible feeling when you wear a helmet which causes you to go a little bit faster or taking that lil extra risk.

 

I really would love to see absolute statistics and data on the lives saved by wearing helmets...

 

Lastly, in this country i rarely trust the incumbent government with my well being.

I was waiting for this default response. 

 

No one can obey all the laws all the time, absolutely. But we can try!

NOT putting your helmet on before a ride, is a very explicit decision that one makes.

 

If you do not believe the laws to be of benefit to us, lobby to change them.

If you would rather choose to simply ignore them, thats cool, thats your choice, but then I reserve my right to calling you out on it.

[carbon29er]

I am very much for not telling people how to live. As long as their actions don't break rules and laws.

 

Any lawless action contributes to social degradation.

Or do we get to pick which laws obey?

 

We are obliged to obey all laws, whether or not we agree with them.

 

My point is I have no business telling someone else what to do. Worry about yourself being a law abiding citizen and set an example.  If you want to enforce laws join the law enforcement system. God knows they need all the help they can get.

 

Bringing the debate back to safety. I'm only going to need a helmet to protect me if I have an off. I'm only likely to have an off on a gentle pedal to the shops or for coffee if I get hit by a motorist. If I'm riding hard in a bunch I'll wear a helmet as others may cause my off.

 

So I campaign for better protection for cyclists from motorists, not victim blaming in forcing cyclists to do all sorts of crazy stuff to protect them from themselves.

 

Disclaimer: I would never ride single track without a helmet.

[Patchelicious]

We are obliged to obey all laws, whether or not we agree with them.

 

My point is I have no business telling someone else what to do. Worry about yourself being a law abiding citizen and set an example.  If you want to enforce laws join the law enforcement system. God knows they need all the help they can get.

 

Bringing the debate back to safety. I'm only going to need a helmet to protect me if I have an off. I'm only likely to have an off on a gentle pedal to the shops or for coffee if I get hit by a motorist. If I'm riding hard in a bunch I'll wear a helmet as others may cause my off.

 

So I campaign for better protection for cyclists from motorists, not victim blaming in forcing cyclists to do all sorts of crazy stuff to protect them from themselves.

 

Disclaimer: I would never ride single track without a helmet.

Hear you.

 

Law Point: There is a difference between Law Enforcement and our collective social responsibility. There is a spectrum, its not some line where one simply choose to be Republican or Democrat.

 

I CAN politely say to a guy; "Hey pel, might it not be better if you wear a helmet?", I don't have  to "Durbanville MTB Trails Prefect" tackle, pepperspray and arrest the guy.

 

Safety Point: A helmet will not help you much if you get by an 18 wheeler, absolutely. I have only ever crashed hard 3-4 time. And each time my helmet took substantial damage, and my head was fine. This alone is evidence enough for ME that I choose to wear one, even when I ride around the block.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Patchelicious

[Hamstring]

I went to Jonkers once and realized i had left my helmet at home, end of no ride for me went home and road the local TBMBC trails.   don't get out to Jonkers often.   

[IceCreamMan]

I was waiting for this default response. 

 

No one can obey all the laws all the time, absolutely. But we can try!

NOT putting your helmet on before a ride, is a very explicit decision that one makes.

 

If you do not believe the laws to be of benefit to us, lobby to change them.

If you would rather choose to simply ignore them, thats cool, thats your choice, but then I reserve my right to calling you out on it.

Sure, an I reserve the right to tell you to go to hell.

 

I aint arguing, I aint fighting but until I see cold hard data that helmets absolutely save lives and make cycling a safer proposition every time I am not convinced of their necessity.

 

Too often, we follow without actually thinking, its not always black an white. ZA implemented helmet laws without actually doing any research into it...

 

The data I can find on the subject is diverse from absolutely helmets save lives (helmet association) to helmets do not reduce hospitlisation etc (independent) to helmets are useless ( brain surgeon)

 

my concern with helmets is the false sense of security they may give, resulting in higher incidence of accidents and injuries. ( the Hurt report identified this)

 

without a doubt in some cases a helmet may save one from injury etc....

[Mamil]

Asking for statistics about helmet use reminds of the tobacco lobbyists saying that there is no proof that smoking causes cancer or the climate change gainsayers putting forward that there is no definitive evidence that an upswing in global temperatures is due to the use of fossil fuels.

 

It's like a safety belt or an airbag. You chances of surviving an accident are greater the more safety mechanisms are in place. I very much doubt that anyone ever got killed by their helmet being properly used.

 

An anecdote from the Bloemendal pump track a few months ago. A mother was there with her boy (about 8 I guestimated). No helmet riding up and down the mounds. I told her that he needed a helmet and I pointed to the sign that says no helmet no ride.

 

If I had left it and he had crashed and split his head open I don't think I would be comfortable with my actions.

 

As for Carbons cricket example I wonder if you've ever been hit with a cricket ball? I have - with and without the helmet and I can assure you the one with the helmet was a lot easier to handle.

 

To me it's a no brainer - get hit on the head with a hard object while wearing a hard protective shell vs get hit on the head with no protection. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Mamil

[Patchelicious]

Sure, an I reserve the right to tell you to go to hell.

 

I aint arguing, I aint fighting but until I see cold hard data that helmets absolutely save lives and make cycling a safer proposition every time I am not convinced of their necessity.

 

Too often, we follow without actually thinking, its not always black an white. ZA implemented helmet laws without actually doing any research into it...

 

The data I can find on the subject is diverse from absolutely helmets save lives (helmet association) to helmets do not reduce hospitlisation etc (independent) to helmets are useless ( brain surgeon)

 

my concern with helmets is the false sense of security they may give, resulting in higher incidence of accidents and injuries. ( the Hurt report identified this)

 

without a doubt in some cases a helmet may save one from injury etc....

You sure do, but only one of us would be making a positive contribution to society. If I politely mention that wearing helmets is the law, and you respond with "GO TO HELL", that says a lot.

 

Remember, I am not breaking the law, you are.

 

Welcome to SA, where its ok to get angry at people when YOU do something wrong.....

Edited January 5, 2017 by Patchelicious

[IceCreamMan]

Another aspect to mandatory helmets which has not been brought up is the amount of ppl that will now not ride due to the hassle of having to have a helmet...inactivity causes death..

 

how many lives does compulsory helmets actually cost....

 

hehe

[arabsandals]

Not quite like not wearing a seatbelt.  Not wearing a helmet it is your own problem.  Not wearing a seatbelt you are putting other occupants of a car in more danger.

That's not really the purpose of a seatbelt. It's a personal protection device, primarily.

[Patchelicious]

Another aspect to mandatory helmets which has not been brought up is the amount of ppl that will now not ride due to the hassle of having to have a helmet...inactivity causes death..

 

how many lives does compulsory helmets actually cost....

 

hehe

You seem to have access to lots of studies, is there one that support this?

[IceCreamMan]

Asking for statistics about helmet use reminds of the tobacco lobbyists saying that there is no proof that smoking causes cancer or the climate change gainsayers putting forward that there is no definitive evidence that an upswing in global temperatures is due to the use of fossil fuels.

 

It's like a safety belt or an airbag. You chances of surviving an accident are greater the more safety mechanisms are in place. I very much doubt that anyone ever got killed by their helmet being properly used.

 

An anecdote from the Bloemendal pump track a few months ago. A mother was there with her boy (about 8 I guestimated). No helmet riding up and down the mounds. I told her that he needed a helmet and I pointed to the sign that says no helmet no ride.

 

If I had left it and he had crashed and split his head open I don't think I would be comfortable with my actions.

 

As for Carbons cricket example I wonder if you've ever been hit with a cricket ball? I have - with and without the helmet and I can assure you the one with the helmet was a lot easier to handle.

 

To me it's a no brainer - get hit on the head with a hard object while wearing a hard protective shell vs get hit on the head with no protection.

I have no interest in the helmet industry nor in the tobacco industry.

 

the examples you raise have long since been finalized...smoking does cause cancer, seatbelts and airbags do save lives etc.

 

Climate changes, until Al Gore returns his Nobel and starts using public transport I aint buying it

 

but we digress.

 

Too often what we think intuitively to be right is actually incorrect. Because we put a flimsy piece of plastic on our heads we suddenly think we invincible and its this invincibility that kills us...not failure to wear a helmet.

[ZakAttak]

Not quite like not wearing a seatbelt.  Not wearing a helmet it is your own problem.  Not wearing a seatbelt you are putting other occupants of a car in more danger.

Nevermind, anyone else in your car, what about all other road users?

[arabsandals]

I have no interest in the helmet industry nor in the tobacco industry.

 

the examples you raise have long since been finalized...smoking does cause cancer, seatbelts and airbags do save lives etc.

 

Climate changes, until Al Gore returns his Nobel and starts using public transport I aint buying it

 

but we digress.

 

Too often what we think intuitively to be right is actually incorrect. Because we put a flimsy piece of plastic on our heads we suddenly think we invincible and its this invincibility that kills us...not failure to wear a helmet.

That really is a pathetic argument. It is not disputable that a helmet confers protection over and above your bare noggin. That's the end of the argument. The rest is misguided noise about free choice. Just because it's a law, doen't mean you have to follow it; you just take your chances with the consequences.

Doesn't matter how safely you ride or what your skill level is; the real world is unpredictable. If you're going 80km/h downhill and you crash, I agree it's quite unlikely a helmet is going to allow you to escape unscathed. However, it's all those other minor incidents that could potentially result in serious injury without a helmet that you're guarding against, or not, as the case may be. 

[IceCreamMan]

You seem to have access to lots of studies, is there one that support this?

Bike sharing schemes typically fail and one of the reasons is the compulsory helmet issue. So, less people are likely to cycle because of helmets and helmet hair etc. inactivity causes death. No direct studies but I can assure you that inactivity results in far more deaths in ZA than cycling related deaths by thousands to one.

 

just stirring really. things seldom happen in a vacuum, there is more to the downside of compulsory helmet wear than initially thought of.

 

I would like to see stats from ZA(or any country with reputable stats) showing cycling related deaths per kilometer prior to the introduction of helmet laws and afterwards. No such data exists and every research project seems to indicate different diverse findings. If helmets saved lives it would be absolute and its not so why do we blindly believe that helmets do save lives?