Wheel sucking debate

[Mamil]

I can confirm that i am not a wheelsucker.

 

I can also confirm that I don't like wheelsuckers. I look down on them actually.

 

Things you discover in paarl.

 

I have some questions about riding in a group which i will post.

[Maila]

You pay my entry .... you tell me where and how to ride !!!

I pay my entry .... I decide .......

Lol

[Eugene Oppelt]

I can confirm that i am not a wheelsucker.

 

I can also confirm that I don't like wheelsuckers. I look down on them actually.

 

Things you discover in paarl.

 

I have some questions about riding in a group which i will post.

Hmmm...

 

*drum roll*

[Mamil]

Be nice Dale.

 

Hmmm...

 

*drum roll*

[Mamil]

So 2 of the questions .... at one point 5 of us were rotating the lead in 2 columns, each guy taking 5 or 10 seconds in the front. There was a fair cross wind.

 

How do you judge how fast you should be going when you are in the front and as you move up past the slower moving column? As i hit the front i suddenly found myself almost overcompensating. I didn't want to be the guy who is it "half wheels"? but I wasn't sure how to guage how hard i should be working? Does this just come with experience?

 

The second question is how do you stop these nice co-operative systems from breaking down. Ithe columns above broke down as soon as we hit an incline. Is that because we were all of different abilities and strangers?

[porqui]

So 2 of the questions .... at one point 5 of us were rotating the lead in 2 columns, each guy taking 5 or 10 seconds in the front. There was a fair cross wind.

 

How do you judge how fast you should be going when you are in the front and as you move up past the slower moving column? As i hit the front i suddenly found myself almost overcompensating. I didn't want to be the guy who is it "half wheels"? but I wasn't sure how to guage how hard i should be working? Does this just come with experience?

 

The second question is how do you stop these nice co-operative systems from breaking down. Ithe columns above broke down as soon as we hit an incline. Is that because we were all of different abilities and strangers?

 

you don't cycle up to the front - rookie error - front guy falls away.

So the idea is that the group maintains a certain speed which is higher than the individual can ride. When the front rider begins to tire he maintains speed but goes to the left (or right) of the line and then eases off until the last in the line passes him and he then falls in line. All the time the line maintains the speed. The error is when someone in the line breaks and then rides to the front to take over - by the time he gets there he is buggered and of no use. So fall away and join the back of the line - that's rotating. So the front guys will stay there for varying times. When he stays there too long the line begins to slow and others come from the back to get the pace going again and thats when it goes wrong - it's quite simple but there is a fine art to it and all must adhere.

[Eugene Oppelt]

Mamil,

 

About your question 1:

 

Overcompensating when you hit the front is a natural thing to do.

Also known as surging.

 

Even with my power meter data or HR feedback, I use my speedometer to judge what speed should be maintained before I hit the front.

If you're 2nd or 3rd wheel, check out the speed levels and then maintain that when you hit the front.

[Breezer]

Today I was in one of the best chase groups ever. Everyone did his part. Thanks to all the guys in the A group that was left up bothmas. It was hard, but worth it.

[Eugene Oppelt]

Today I was in one of the best chase groups ever. Everyone did his part. Thanks to all the guys in the A group that was left up bothmas. It was hard, but worth it.

Welcome back to the pain cave, Breezer!

I heard the the leading (wheel)suckas stayed away.

 

So close and yet so far ????

[blondeonabike]

Mamil,

 

About your question 1:

 

Overcompensating when you hit the front is a natural thing to do.

Also known as surging.

 

Even with my power meter data or HR feedback, I use my speedometer to judge what speed should be maintained before I hit the front.

If you're 2nd or 3rd wheel, check out the speed levels and then maintain that when you hit the front.

I have found that if you stay in the same gear and maintain the same cadence you will maintain the same speed.  As you come into the wind you will just feel a little more resistance.  You will need to pedal just a little harder, but not faster.  Time on the track on a fixed gear taught me this especially if you a pacelining and there is a wind.  (Half a lap with the wind half a lap against. ) Cadence is the key

[Mamil]

Very informative thanks Dale and Blondie.

 

I can imagine that if you get a group going in a good rhythm that this is fantastic fun to be a part of.

 

I found a few times today, especially on one stretch into the wind that i'd slow down and noone would ride up to take my place. Then another guy did come up and he and i took turns for a bit and after half an hour of that i needed to rest so i dropped back into the group. Unbelievable how easy it is in there. Could freewheel along just pedalling a little bit.

 

Very boring though.

[Eugene Oppelt]

I have found that if you stay in the same gear and maintain the same cadence you will maintain the same speed. As you come into the wind you will just feel a little more resistance. You will need to pedal just a little harder, but not faster. Time on the track on a fixed gear taught me this especially if you a pacelining and there is a wind. (Half a lap with the wind half a lap against. ) Cadence is the key

Another useful metric ????????????

[Halfdoesyn]

I don't know. Taking all of the wealth of knowledge given here into the Bouckaert this weekend, I couldn't find anyone who rides like this. Admittedly, I started way back and guessing those riders are also novices or don't care/don't know. Every time I tried to join a group, I got impatient, go to the front and just drop them. Rode alone most of the way.

 

In spite of this, had an excellent result, so moving up...

[Mamil]

I also found that a lot of the guys I rode with didn't seem to understand the system even though my own understanding was also incomplete. I was seeded in group M and we started with K-M. After about 3 k's this group had split into two and I could see the larger group about 800m ahead.

 

It felt like the group I was in was going too slowly so I decided to chase the group ahead. I signalled to the guy behind me to join me but when I looked back he didn't follow so I rode alone for about 5 or 6 kilometers to catch up. I was a little worried I was blowing myself up because my HR was at 94% for this chase but when I caught them I rested in the bunch for a while and then started trying to help tow them.

 

Once I accidentally ended up ahead of the group - into the wind but I realised I was going too fast to sustain so I slowed down and joined again. I did feel though that if the group was just a little faster I would have been OK to keep up,

 

I was also very pleased with my result - finished 40 something out of the 360 odd entries and averaged 28 kilometers an hour so I think my goal of a 4 hour Argus is on - given that there's more ascent on the Argus and way more slower traffic and weather might also play a big role. Actually I'm delighted with this result because whenever I ride with mates I'm always the slow guy that everyone has to wait for.

 

Anyway - I'm hooked on road races as well as MTB races now - and ever more obsessed with this cycling sport.

 

Can't wait for the 99er on Saturday where I'm doing the 102 - you gonna be there halfdoesyn?

 

 

I don't know. Taking all of the wealth of knowledge given here into the Bouckaert this weekend, I couldn't find anyone who rides like this. Admittedly, I started way back and guessing those riders are also novices or don't care/don't know. Every time I tried to join a group, I got impatient, go to the front and just drop them. Rode alone most of the way.

 

In spite of this, had an excellent result, so moving up...

[Halfdoesyn]

Can't wait for the 99er on Saturday where I'm doing the 102 - you gonna be there halfdoesyn?

Yep, but starting way back, I sukkel to ave more than 24.

[Patchelicious]

Must say, I was taught a lesson this weekend.

 

Went out to the Cradle yesterday, as the wife wanted to do a 21km training run.

I thought she would run it in a round 2h20ish. So I set myself the target of riding from Bidon to the Caves and back 3 times (about 72km) before she got back to Bidon in 2h20. Meaning I had to ride above 30km/h ave to beat her. Meaning I was going to be riding faster than the average dude out there and I was expecting a wheel suck or two, with this thread still fresh in my mind. I was already angry.....

 

On my 3 and final loop, going out the caves, I saw 3 riders ahead. 2 old dudes, and young very strong looking chap. He kept glancing over my shoulder watching me approach. I knew what was coming. As I passed him, I heard the sound of gears dropping and moments later he was RIGHT on my wheel. 

 

Immediately thinking to myself, what a knobhead, I shook my head in disappointment. He then pulled out of my slip and rode off to the side of me, we are now doing 300W on the flat. He started to tire and pulled back into my slip, upon which I shook my head again, he again pulled out of my slip and started riding out to the side face in the wind. By now I had upped it to 400W and we were flying. I then heard his breathing becoming very heavy and without looking around, upped it to 450W for about 1min, he was gone... I felt better, giving myself metal high 5s like that volleyball scene from TopGun.

 

I then turned around at the caves and started heading back towards Bidon, but at a more normal pace. He pulled up next to me and politely says "Hoekom het Oom sy kop vir my geskud, is Oom kwaad vir my?"

 

I was so taken aback that I didn't have a reply and started waffling about training rides this and drafting that.... I felt like a tit to be honest.

 

I then started chatting to him, and what actually transpired was that he (17 year old kid with amazing manners) had just started riding this year, and just wanted to follow somebody to learn.... ? I felt so bad that I ended chatting to him for like 10 minutes.... He probably thinks I am some weird pedo now....

 

Was just a little perspective.

 

 

BUT that was a training ride, don't think its ok to wheels suck in races based on this!