Pure Savage Posted February 6, 2017 Share Ja and it just seems as if neither the motorists or law enforcement is even interested in following the law and police don't seemed bothered enforcing it. They need to have a look at what is working where in the country and try and bring it in everywhere..what are the stats in other major cities, is it the same everywhere or do some cities have fewer incidents and what are they doing differently. So many questions..Agreed, in ideal world. PPA tells government that a cyclist per week is too much death, harsher senctence, government see's the urgency changes law. Cops are enformed of the update and the procecuters make an example. What happens - PPA appeals, it seen as a big issue due to the huge numbers of cyclists on roads in Jan-Mar. By the time anything happens in August there has been no death on the road as all the fair weather cyclists are in bed and nothing happens till the next year. Maybe it is the type of cyclist that cycles in Cape Town between Jan - Mar that is the issue, April to November hardly any incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 6, 2017 Share Ja and it just seems as if neither the motorists or law enforcement is even interested in following the law and police don't seemed bothered enforcing it. They need to have a look at what is working where in the country and try and bring it in everywhere..what are the stats in other major cities, is it the same everywhere or do some cities have fewer incidents and what are they doing differently. So many questions..Thing is, that would actually entail doing some work. Given that SAPO is in the control of Herr Zuma and cronies, that's not going to happen anytime soon. There needs to be a concerted push back against the rampant lawlessness. But apart from vigilantism, there's very little that can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 6, 2017 Share So thats three accidents with cars in one weekend. Patch, I dont know what you expect them to do? There is no quick fix, must they jump up and down making a fuss that will accomplish nothing? I know we love to hate on PPA and CSA, but there is not much they can do to stop retards in their cars hitting cyclists. They were out again on chappies preaching to motorists about stay wider of the rider this weekend. Please can you stop with pushing the conversation towards hating on the CSA and PPA. Thats not the point, and painting my stance on them as such is not right. To answer your question: There are short term, medium term and long term solutions, as we have discussed before. Something the bodies can do RIGHT now is create awareness through press.Get on the radio, into the papers, on TV etc etc. They can also engage with the people who understand how to market and get messages across. Right now I believe a massive media campaign is needed. But at minimum they must at least be seen as doing SOMETHING. (Still haven't been told what they are actually doing.... Mike Bradley has said that he is working on projects for speedier trials and harsher sentences) But again, a simple, loud and emotional plea to motorist to stop killing cyclists is a basic and good start. Think that first kiss advert.... Then in the medium term, they can lobby to get laws changed, to impose harsher charges on motorists that mow down cyclists/leave the scene etc. They can also lobby to expedite cases, and not have them dragged out for so long. They can put their weight behind pushing the actual enforcement of the law, put pressure on the Law Enforcement agencies to be visible etc. Long term its about educating children, creating behavioral changes that will last. There are many many many many things that can be done if we want to do them. Honestly, putting people on Chappies is nice, but only a few people see that. Maybe because its your local loop, you feel thats its enough. I am not saying they must stop this, but they can do OTHER higher impact things too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted February 6, 2017 Share I think everyone is focussing on a lack of respect for cyclists instead of just a blatant lack of respect for the law in general. These hit and runs are just the surface of the shocking driving habits of pretty much 85% of road users. I was pulling into Sportsmans Tokai the other day behind a guy in a corsa. There is a pedestrian crossing ocross the slip into the car park. This guy just ignored it and mowed straight into 2 people crossing the road. 45 minutes later I was leaving the car park on another slip which has a 2 way yield to allow the converging traffic to flow. I yielded for car 1 then the car behind just went straight through the yield sign, over a speed bump and only then noticed she was about to be run over by my Landy. I slammed on the brakes to which she evil eyed me and cursed me without even realising she had completely ignored the traffic laws. Overtaking on solid lines, 80 in a heavily residential 60 or 50 zone. The cell phone epidemic is scary as hell. I got a lift somewhere the other day and my friend started browsing Instagram while heading down main road! The lack of respect for road rules/laws and general impatience, aggressiveness and entitlement is something which we as a group have spoken about for years. A nation wide clean up needs to happen. More police presence, more road blocks, more speed cameras and better enforcing. As cyclists we are vulnerable and this needs to be looked at as well. Enforcing punishment seems to be the missing step... On a related note I ran through constantia on Saturday morning and every second house had sprinklers going full tilt. Same same.... easy to enforce, the threats are out but no one is being punished and until they are, no one cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni Posted February 6, 2017 Share a quick look on Twitter - I don't know if it's verified 13 yr old on bike in Limpopo province killed on 4th Feb cyclist injured yesterday in Vereeninging https://twitter.com/ER24EMS/status/828209852694556672 whether you're on the road training, commuting - I think the carnage is worse than we realise, there needs to be a database of events and a log of what if any action in terms of charges / arrests etc that can be presented to the authorities to say look at these stats - WTF are you doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 6, 2017 Share They need to rethink their awareness campaign. No amount of pressure in the courts after a death is going to bring a loved one back, they someone have to figure out how to prevent all these incident. I remember a drunk and driving ad that was on the TV when I was a kid, it was quite upsetting but effective.. For every one cyclist we hear of getting knocked over how many commuters aren't getting knocked over.. the message needs to reach everyone and mustn't get seen as a cyclist thing.I don't think the purpose of pressure of judiciary is to create a zombie apololcypse. By imposing harsher punishments and actually enforcing them you increase the consequence of bad actions, and therefore help prevent them. Its a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted February 6, 2017 Share Thing is, that would actually entail doing some work. Given that SAPO is in the control of Herr Zuma and cronies, that's not going to happen anytime soon. There needs to be a concerted push back against the rampant lawlessness. But apart from vigilantism, there's very little that can be done.Someone needs to bring the cycling community and the larger community together on this..as this effects guys training and guys riding their bikes to work to make a living. A bunch of cyclist are going to he seen as some entitled bunch of people that think they own the road.. but bring in the local community and now you have a much larger louder voice. (PS I have no idea how they have been approaching the issue, maybe they do have the local community working with them?..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 6, 2017 Share Thing is, that would actually entail doing some work. Given that SAPO is in the control of Herr Zuma and cronies, that's not going to happen anytime soon. There needs to be a concerted push back against the rampant lawlessness. But apart from vigilantism, there's very little that can be done. The problem is dude, that because so little is being done, vigilantism is becoming a consideration, and thats a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepia Posted February 6, 2017 Share I think everyone is focussing on a lack of respect for cyclists instead of just a blatant lack of respect for the law in general. 1000%!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanMort Posted February 6, 2017 Share Like this idea, but how would this impact GPS enabled apps running on the phone? Probably has too many loopholes for other requirements to fully pursue this, unless we can have some proper technical info on it. e.g Do they have the capacity to shut down ports that IM and similar happen on when the phone is in rapid motion? I'm sure this idea would be technically possible but it would never ever work out. There are perfectly acceptable and legal reasons for a cellphone to be tracked at xxKmh .. being used by a passenger in a bus or taxi, being used by a driver with in-car hands-free bluetooth connectivity for whatever reason (GPS and/or phone call), being used for GPS tracking (Strava etc) by a cyclist or other sportsperson. There are also other non-cellphone devices that use the cellphone networks for tracking. It would just be a near impossibility to implement. What is entirely possible is to use the information from the cellphone networks to establish the details of hit-and-run drivers. Cellphone towers can not only establish the various phones registered in their range, but also distance and location to a degree that is useful. A cellphone roams and connects to various towers along its journey. If a cyclist is a victim of hit-and-run then it's very likely that the vehicle drivers' cellphone would be located in the very same geolocation, and by excluding the rest of the phones (ride buddies, pedestrians etc) in that same geolocation it's possible to track and trace the driver to/from other areas. It does cost though, and perhaps PPA or other stakeholders would consider budgeting for using this technology. Here is one such company that provides this service: https://www.intertel.co.za/services/gsm-cell-tracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowone Posted February 6, 2017 Share Apparently there was a cyclist hit by a bike on chappies as well today. What .. i was there .. with my two boys .. they outclimb me so they on there own all the way up .. This is getting ridiculous .. every week there is at least one incident .. and for the next few weeks till CTCT just about everyone with and without a CTCT entry will be out on the road ... We as a cycling community must take action .. When one of these hit and run drivers appear in court .. we should all go and support the cyclist / or worst case .. the family of the deceased cyclist ... Its also time that the cycling bodies in the country take note and take action .... we don't pay affiliation fees for nothing ... RANT OFF ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted February 6, 2017 Share I don't think the purpose of pressure of judiciary is to create a zombie apololcypse. By imposing harsher punishments and actually enforcing them you increase the consequence of bad actions, and therefore help prevent them. Its a deterrent.The enforcing the law is where the problem is at this point..cops don't even obey the rules of the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 6, 2017 Share Something that is FULLY achievable. We approach the Cellphone networks. Get them to automatically switch off mobile data when the phone hits 40kph. All modern phones are fitted with accelorometers so a small update would be all it takes. It's illegal to use a phone whilst driving so the cellphone networks would be helping people become law abiding citizens. I love a good idea, and ideas people are even cooler so kudos for this. However, I have spoke to the mobile guys about this, and unfortunately, its not going to happen. There are so many reasons why it will not happen, its too long to list. Revenue, other people in car not driving, onus of responsibility, hardware compatibility..... It can be likened to approaching the motor manufactures and getting them to remotely limit the speeds on cars their based on the speed limits where the car is driving. It the problem is people texting and driving, we need to stop the people from doing that.Text n drive? Get your phone confiscated, simple, just as an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloukrans Posted February 6, 2017 Share The problem is dude, that because so little is being done, vigilantism is becoming a consideration, and thats a bad thing. We cannot and we must not go down this road! This must not be an option - at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 6, 2017 Share The problem is dude, that because so little is being done, vigilantism is becoming a consideration, and thats a bad thing.yeah. I know... Someone needs to bring the cycling community and the larger community together on this..as this effects guys training and guys riding their bikes to work to make a living. A bunch of cyclist are going to he seen as some entitled bunch of people that think they own the road.. but bring in the local community and now you have a much larger louder voice. (PS I have no idea how they have been approaching the issue, maybe they do have the local community working with them?..)TBH Gen, I dunno. But I suspect that the amount of normal peds being killed is far higher than cyclists. We're just more attuned to seeing cyclist deaths than peds, as we identify with them more. Regarding ped deaths & cycling deaths & moto deaths (hell, ALL deaths on the road, for that matter) I think it's a struggle against general apathy, lawlessness & education. Singling out cyclists as a group is in my opinion missing the point, as it's the same causes across teh spectrum, excluding drunk peds, obviously. Yes, cyclists are hit and killed. But so are peds. So are other road users. ALL because of the same factors.... The root cause of these accidents should be the focus, in my opinion. Cell phones. Awareness. Drunken driving. Apathy. Education. Along with that, there should be adequate policing across the board, so that there's another dissuasion from doing those things that increase the possibility of an accident occurring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 6, 2017 Share The enforcing the law is where the problem is at this point..cops don't even obey the rules of the road.Ok, then we lobby to get that fixed. Listing issue after issue as to why things CANNOT be done, is part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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