[Event] Emperors Palace Classic

[GP_Cruz]

Hey Guys, so following this debate, the 3 guys who started the BL batch was myself in Road Cover kit and 2 office Guru kits, we pretty much train and ride together and are good mates... myself and a mate both with AL numbers started in BL with the other Office Guru guy. We tried to set the pace hard from the start, then wanted to sit back, but the pace kept dropping - and the group never broke, so we had to work hard for the group the majority of the race, with a few other handful of guys. (These are the guys we shake hands with at the end of the race, after spending 2 hours with someone, you recognize them easily afterwards) 

It is frustrating working hard for the group and only a handful of other riders are prepared to roll on with the front guys, giving the riders time to recover even 30 seconds helps, but this wasn't the case

 

At the end I made a break too soon when we caught the ladies bunch and legs blew, I tried to hang on to the group but the last hill killed it for me, and everyone came past.
 

the point is the last 10km I witnessed 5 / 6 guys come up front which we hadn't seen the whole race, and now trying to make it for the win... this is frustrating especially when you are riding as an individual, sucking wheel until final sprint.. 

if a group realizes that we can all work together and roll on, we can increase average speed by 2 / 3 km per hour, bettering everyones results and at the end its all even keel for the finish. anyway my 2 cents, was awesome race! see you guys at the next one... 

GP 

[Forbsie]

Hey Guys, so following this debate, the 3 guys who started the BL batch was myself in Road Cover kit and 2 office Guru kits, we pretty much train and ride together and are good mates... myself and a mate both with AL numbers started in BL with the other Office Guru guy. We tried to set the pace hard from the start, then wanted to sit back, but the pace kept dropping - and the group never broke, so we had to work hard for the group the majority of the race, with a few other handful of guys. (These are the guys we shake hands with at the end of the race, after spending 2 hours with someone, you recognize them easily afterwards) 

 

It is frustrating working hard for the group and only a handful of other riders are prepared to roll on with the front guys, giving the riders time to recover even 30 seconds helps, but this wasn't the case

 

At the end I made a break too soon when we caught the ladies bunch and legs blew, I tried to hang on to the group but the last hill killed it for me, and everyone came past.

 

the point is the last 10km I witnessed 5 / 6 guys come up front which we hadn't seen the whole race, and now trying to make it for the win... this is frustrating especially when you are riding as an individual, sucking wheel until final sprint.. 

 

if a group realizes that we can all work together and roll on, we can increase average speed by 2 / 3 km per hour, bettering everyones results and at the end its all even keel for the finish. anyway my 2 cents, was awesome race! see you guys at the next one... 

 

GP 

I'm confused........ why try break up the BL okes..... stay with AL where u seeded? You made the breaks etc.... so were keen to win BL maybe? Maybe in AL you would have found your few minutes and / or 2-3 km per hour you were looking for? Just a thought   

[GP_Cruz]

I'm confused........ why try break up the BL okes..... stay with AL where u seeded? You made the breaks etc.... so were keen to win BL maybe? Maybe in AL you would have found your few minutes and / or 2-3 km per hour you were looking for? Just a thought 

As said, we were seeded in AL, but started in BL with the rest of our "team" so we could all ride together like happy chappies... 

 

Not try break BL, but break away from BL, sometimes what happens is you take the strongest BL riders with and work together.. but the entire group held on. 

 

Hopefully the BL seeded team mate will have an AL seeding for the next race, then we can all start in AL. 

 

 thought we were talking about the wheel suckers though? 

 

 

 

[The Ouzo]

I'm confused........ why try break up the BL okes..... stay with AL where u seeded? You made the breaks etc.... so were keen to win BL maybe? Maybe in AL you would have found your few minutes and / or 2-3 km per hour you were looking for? Just a thought 

I think you're missing his point.

 

Had the wheel suckers done their turn at the front the ENTIRE group would have been a few km/h quicker. meaning the ENTIRE group, even the wheel suckers, would have had a better finishing time.

[Frosty]

The first three positions in BL taken up by “wheel suckers” - which I guess is part of alphabet group racing. The next three places, maybe 4 were part of the small group that kept the pace going.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Referring to the same photo posted earlier, we had the luxury of numbers in BL, so only needed to commit a certain number of club members to pacing an allow one or two to sit in.

 

The guy on the right in our older club kit is one of 4 development riders that we sponsor. That sponsorship not only includes kit, transport and entry fees but also tactics, skills and (over time they’ll gain ) racing experience.

 

Seen near the front, but never sitting in the wind or taking a turn - does that make him a wheel sucker?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited March 27, 2018 by Frosty

[Patchelicious]

Another flat race, another moaning session about wheel suckers, these are the days of our lives.

 

If you want to win, you need to attack. (Hope Louis reads this before the GTs)

[s14phoenix]

As said, we were seeded in AL, but started in BL with the rest of our "team" so we could all ride together like happy chappies... 

 

Not try break BL, but break away from BL, sometimes what happens is you take the strongest BL riders with and work together.. but the entire group held on. 

 

Hopefully the BL seeded team mate will have an AL seeding for the next race, then we can all start in AL. 

 

 thought we were talking about the wheel suckers though? 

 

This happens a lot but don't expect to have the other BL guys "LIKE" your ride if you did no work and then sprint for 400th place or try to break the group - Breakaway is different.

 

Buddy doping is another problem we have.

 

This is the same reason there is so many inexperienced riders causing havoc in the quicker groups - they never learned the ropes properly through gaining experience in working their way through the alphabet soup and then accidents happen. So be careful when assisting in promoting buddies and friend to groups through buddy doping them - make sure they can hang with the group  you are getting them into.

 

Wheelsuckers are a reality of racing al the way to the pro peloton - the true champions can still win by riding a wheelsucker off the wheel.

 

Just to add... there is no winning in the alphabet soup... I also sprint if safe to do so at the end but even if you come 1st in A or AL or whatever - you still did not win. I do it to gain the experience of such with an eye on moving to licenced racing and not be a complete noob.

 

When you tell people you came 400th out of 3000 it does not matter that it was 1st in A or B or whichever.

Edited March 27, 2018 by s14phoenix

[Nakoota]

 

 

Just to add... there is no winning in the alphabet soup... I also sprint if safe to do so at the end but even if you come 1st in A or AL or whatever - you still did not win. I do it to gain the experience of such with an eye on moving to licenced racing and not be a complete noob.

 

When you tell people you came 400th out of 3000 it does not matter that it was 1st in A or B or whichever.

 

What a short sighted statement... That is like telling your kid who plays and wins in second team rugby that he is a loser because he didn't make the first team. The entire concept of seeding is aimed at allowing people of similar ability to compete with one another.

 

For that matter lets go on record and state that Reynard Butler didn't actually win the race because Daryl Impey was not there. How about that?

[Forbsie]

What a short sighted statement... That is like telling your kid who plays and wins in second team rugby that he is a loser because he didn't make the first team. The entire concept of seeding is aimed at allowing people of similar ability to compete with one another.

 

For that matter lets go on record and state that Reynard Butler didn't actually win the race because Daryl Impey was not there. How about that?

Na... dont think so.... if your kid gets picked for 1st team he plays there.... doesn't move to 2nd's at will and run all over the 2nd team okes! Apples with apples.... if u seeded A... ride A... might as well forget about seeding then...... You hit the nail on it's head.... to allow similar ability to compete with one another! Pointless dropping back? Not to mention you ride / train with your mates alot. Sure they'll be fine 1 group behind? 

[The Ouzo]

Na... dont think so.... if your kid gets picked for 1st team he plays there.... doesn't move to 2nd's at will and run all over the 2nd team okes! Apples with apples.... if u seeded A... ride A... might as well forget about seeding then...... You hit the nail on it's head.... to allow similar ability to compete with one another! Pointless dropping back? Not to mention you ride / train with your mates alot. Sure they'll be fine 1 group behind? 

not entirely accurate.

 

My cycling buddy and I train together, for years they would seed him ahead of me, yet every race we did he would drop back a group or 2 and we would start and end together. Yet they still seeded him ahead of me again and again. The only difference between us was him being 1 year older than me.

 

Was he buddy doping to get me ahead ? nope, I've always been the stronger rider and often used to pull the groups on the flatter races.

[L46]

Na... dont think so.... if your kid gets picked for 1st team he plays there.... doesn't move to 2nd's at will and run all over the 2nd team okes! Apples with apples.... if u seeded A... ride A... might as well forget about seeding then...... You hit the nail on it's head.... to allow similar ability to compete with one another! Pointless dropping back? Not to mention you ride / train with your mates alot. Sure they'll be fine 1 group behind? 

 

Don't think he was referring to moving back from A to B or C for example.  He referred to licensed groups (elite) vs the "complete noob alphabet soup" as he calls it.  Yet some people have real jobs and/or other commitments and can't quite get to the level of the wannabee pro's that couldn't get to world tour level.  Where does one draw the line then ($, VA, VB, A, B, C?)  I'd say everyone knows what their own ambitions are but whichever group you start in there will always be a race within that group.  I therefore fully agree with you that in the seeding bunches you should start where you're seeded to make it fair.  For $, VA, VB etc you can just buy yourself a license and ride there, but you'll soon realize if your fit enough or not and move back to A if needs be.  (I've never heard the front of A complain about licensed guys dropping back)

[BarneyZA]

Another flat race, another moaning session about wheel suckers, these are the days of our lives.

 

If you want to win, you need to attack. (Hope Louis reads this before the GTs)

 

 amen to this - the size of the elite bunch at the finish was indication of this.

 

Racing was fast - and constant attacks - for those trying to get away was a very different story to those who sat there in the bunch for the whole race till the lat 30km when all hell broke loose

 

was good fun when a 18wheeler did a uturn in front of the bunch in the final few km just before crossing the highway by the Engen.

[Vetplant]

was good fun when a 18wheeler did a uturn in front of the bunch in the final few km just before crossing the highway by the Engen.

So did everyone neutralize the racing or did they "play the course", ie. used the truck as a tool to make something happen?

[BarneyZA]

So did everyone neutralize the racing or did they "play the course", ie. used the truck as a tool to make something happen?

 

all slammed brakes - lucky the 18 wheeler was able to make the turn in one move - so we all moved to right of road and carried on at 50kph

[The Ouzo]

So I see the event has changed to the East Rand Classic following a split with Emperors.

 

But I'm a bit confused about the start venue. They say they've teamed up with ACSA and the new start will be at ex long term parking, but then they talk about it being 2.5km away from the old start which doesnt add up.

 

https://inthebunch.co.za/2019/02/east-rand-classic-takes-place-of-emperors-palace-race/

 

With a new name and a different race venue, the East Rand Classic road cycle race has stepped in to take the place of the former Emperors Palace event in Johannesburg on April 28.

The Kempton Park casino, which had hosted the event for several years, was not able to continue its association with the race due to logistical reasons, ASG Events chief executive Erick Oosthuizen said.

“It is a great pity and we thank them for their hospitality over the last couple of years,” he said.

This has resulted in the main change of moving the race venue to the Airports Company South Africa (Acsa) parkade, adjacent to the OR Tambo International airport.

Oosthuizen felt the change added several positive aspects to the overall offering.

“We feel this will be a very handy venue. It may not be the most scenic of venues, but we believe it is the perfect fit for what we need.”

The East Rand Classic, formerly the Emperors Palace Classic, has moved to a new race venue at the Airports Company South Africa parkade in Kempton Park, Johannesburg. The event offers mountain-bike and road cycle races on April 27 and 28. Photo: Yolanda van der Stoep

He said the chief benefit would be that of accessibility and safety.

“We will have the entire venue to ourselves and, therefore, we can make it safe. We will finish away from the public roads and there is plenty of shade [carports], which is always handy.”

Oosthuizen added that the parkade was a former long-term parking area for the airport, which it no longer used.

“It is directly south of the airport, very close to Emperors Palace.

“This means that the route is virtually unchanged as the two venues [Emperors and Acsa] are only 2.5km from one another. It will just be the first few kilometres and the last stretch that will have a slightly different look.”

The event will comprise mountain-bike races of 50km and 25km on April 27, with road distances of 98km and 48km the next day. Entries close on April 3.

[Jase619]

Another flat race, another moaning session about wheel suckers, these are the days of our lives.

 

If you want to win, you need to attack. (Hope Louis reads this before the GTs)

 

He didn't