South Africa and Self-Funding Policy

[andydude]

There is evidence of poor administration in my opinion.... who allows auditors fees to increase by nearly 100% in 1 year.....

 

There are others... but I am not going to raise my blood pressure over searching for them...

 

Maybe ask them at the next AGM or phone them?

 

For your interest, auditors remuneration was only R50,000 in 2013, R125,000 in 2014 and then R225,000 in 2015 

[Eugene]

I am no fin-guru but bad debt of almost R800 000 - now there's your problem. Surely the bad debt from 2014 of nearly R700 000 should have had them tightening the belt.

 

When you are lending money and not recovering it, for whatever reason, you should surely make sure you don't do that and implement stricter checks to legitimize the expense.

 

How do you overspend on grants anyway? Surely you cannot spend what you don't have either? If the books are legit then I think someone should be held accountable - too many cheques being signed too easily it seems. Suppose its not meant to make sense to any of us - kind of like government expenditure.

I doubt bad debts are loans, it's probably people who haven't paid their annual subs.

[Pure Savage]

Auditors fees - 50k - 125k - 225k in 3 years..... I would fire the manager in a heartbeat....

 

NOBODY pays that kind of increase without expecting a quid pro quo of some nature.... or they are totally incompetent..... in both instances they should be terminated.

I would not blame the auditors, if the audit takes that amount of time and those are the costs involved, then so be it. If its a dog show internally and audit fees were only R50k I would assume that they did not do a proper job. The increase talks to inefficiencies from CSA internally. Maybe they were not following internal controls and had to perform a fully substantive approach?

 

The high audit fee tells a tale that all is not lekker at CSA. 

[andydude]

Auditors fees - 50k - 125k - 225k in 3 years..... I would fire the manager in a heartbeat....

 

NOBODY pays that kind of increase without expecting a quid pro quo of some nature.... or they are totally incompetent..... in both instances they should be terminated.

 

See the AGM notes here https://www.cyclingsa.com/s/20161119_Minutes-AGM-November-2016-Final.pdf and read and weep about the AFS and provincial levies in point 8.

 

Also point 9 regarding the auditors in the picture. It seems they did more work for the 2016 year which might explain some of the increase. But I don't know more.

[Pure Savage]

Maybe ask them at the next AGM or phone them?

 

For your interest, auditors remuneration was only R50,000 in 2013, R125,000 in 2014 and then R225,000 in 2015 

 

That just goes to show that the internal controls are horrendous or they were unable to provide supporting docs etc. 

 

should send these to my client to show what a bargain they are getting for their audit

[Pure Savage]

See the AGM notes here https://www.cyclingsa.com/s/20161119_Minutes-AGM-November-2016-Final.pdf and read and weep about the AFS and provincial levies in point 8.

 

Also point 9 regarding the auditors in the picture. It seems they did more work for the 2016 year which might explain some of the increase. But I don't know more.

 

If your tax team is helping with the engagement should be disclosed as a separate engagement and line item. #independece #Justsaying 

[pe3nguin]

Those financials present a very sad tale. I would imagine Savage is right. Those audit fee increases probably meant wholly substantive and hours were munched because internal controls dont exist at CSA?

[andydude]

I would not blame the auditors, if the audit takes that amount of time and those are the costs involved, then so be it. If its a dog show internally and audit fees were only R50k I would assume that they did not do a proper job. The increase talks to inefficiencies from CSA internally. Maybe they were not following internal controls and had to perform a fully substantive approach?

 

The high audit fee tells a tale that all is not lekker at CSA. 

 

From the AGM link I posted in my previous post, what you say seems to be true about the problems at CSA...

[andydude]

If your tax team is helping with the engagement should be disclosed as a separate engagement and line item. #independece #Justsaying 

 

Absolutely! I didn't see any mention of a possible conflict.

 

For my interest, who/what exco member and what company are we talking about exactly?

[Pure Savage]

Also, the report is qualified for completeness of grant revenue, they only can confirm the amounts recorded in the books. So if some grants were paid into the wrong account, not their problemo. 

[Jase619]

That just goes to show that the internal controls are horrendous or they were unable to provide supporting docs etc. 

 

should send these to my client to show what a bargain they are getting for their audit

 

Haha, exactly, people are quick to complain.

 

But on a serious note, as stated by the Savage, an increase in fees like that is more than likely down to serious issues on the CSA side. You could safely presume that the time spent on the audit would of tripled if you take the increases into account.

 

What a mess that place must be.

[Pure Savage]

Absolutely! I didn't see any mention of a possible conflict.

 

For my interest, who/what exco member and what company are we talking about exactly?

 

I am saying if Mazars audit gave them advice on a vat liability and then later in the year audited said vat liability, would raise self review and independence issues. They probably did follow due process regarding independence etc, just CSA should have mentioned it for good governance. 

 

For what its worth, with all the notes in the AFS, R225k looks like a bargain.

[Pure Savage]

Haha, exactly, people are quick to complain.

 

But on a serious note, as stated by the Savage, an increase in fees like that is more than likely down to serious issues on the CSA side. You could safely presume that the time spent on the audit would of tripled if you take the increases into account.

 

What a mess that place must be.

 

Biggest risk here would be costs are incurred are valid CSA costs. That all grant revenue is recorded. Their is also probably a lot of regulatory stuff as well with some of the grants, example, if spending a certain type of grant, have to provide all support docs and show that due process was followed. There could be 3/4 different types of grant prcocess, so it gets messy.  

 

Also, the problem with organisations like CSA, volunteers, the poor okes have jobs during the day, so the auditors, come in, request a whole bunch of stuff and have to probably wait 3 days for info, not the most efficient.

[Jase619]

Biggest risk here would be costs are incurred are valid CSA costs. That all grant revenue is recorded. Their is also probably a lot of regulatory stuff as well with some of the grants, example, if spending a certain type of grant, have to provide all support docs and show that due process was followed. There could be 3/4 different types of grant prcocess, so it gets messy.  

 

Also, the problem with organisations like CSA, volunteers, the poor okes have jobs during the day, so the auditors, come in, request a whole bunch of stuff and have to probably wait 3 days for info, not the most efficient.

 

Yeah, probably explaining why they go into such detail in the notes as to the different projects and grants received and it's related expenditure. Problem always with a place like this is confirming all income is recorded, hence the qualification on the income. Not a accusation though, just a clarification that they can't possibly confirm 100% that its right. People seem to take that statement as an indication of wrongdoing.

 

Yip, filing system is non-existent/incomplete, which is an issue. Makes an otherwise simple process massively more difficult

[Hairy]

ok, can't read through the whole thread right now, so sorry if this has been noted before:

 

"Although self-funded, all travel arrangements are still to be co-ordinated via the Cycling South Africa office and the respective discipline Directors."

 

If CSA have no financial input in my (Let's dream a little here and say I qualify for worlds ) race entry and associated costs .... why would they want to "co-ordinate" my travel arrangements? Do they get a kick back from travel agents?

[Gen]

ok, can't read through the whole thread right now, so sorry if this has been noted before:

 

"Although self-funded, all travel arrangements are still to be co-ordinated via the Cycling South Africa office and the respective discipline Directors."

 

If CSA have no financial input in my (Let's dream a little here and say I qualify for worlds ) race entry and associated costs .... why would they want to "co-ordinate" my travel arrangements? Do they get a kick back from travel agents?

No.. they want to post a pic of the "team" leaving for wherever they are going all in their gagga tracksuits. ..you know social media and all.. they still need to keep up appearances and make it seem as if they are interested in all of it.

 

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