WTF CSA?

[Patchelicious]

So what most of the Cyclists do not realize is that CSA  is a bottom up type of organization. Or whatever you want to call it. And is accountable to its members.

 

Starts with the Rider that belongs to a club that is in good standing with a region.

 

These club members are hopefully also CSA members.

 

Club gets involved at regional level and makes sure that region is run properly and adding value to the clubs and their riders.

 

Region belongs to Provincial structure and does the same.

 

Province up to CSA etc.

 

If you think that CSA is not doing anything for you as cyclist it is most probably because you are not doing anything or very little at club, regional or provincial level if you are even a club member etc.

 

If you are bitching on this forum, you are most propably not a club member or your club is not involved and communicating with their members, because you would be a lot more up to date with how things work and what is currently happening.

 

To start at the top is definitely not the answer. Start with your club and work your way up.

 

Let the regions lead by example. As questions, find out when there are regional meetings, they should allow any member to sit in and observe. Ask for a constitution.  All figures should be open to member scrutiny.

 

I can almost guarantee you your local region does not have all the required positions filled and if they are filled, very often the people do not have the time or energy to do what they need to.

Now if you have no regional rep representing you in CSA structures, you cannot expect that someone else must go and do the work for you. Regions have an income stream, just like CSA and they are accountable to their members as to how the apply it.

 

Ok so if you are a CSA member and a member of a club, go get involved. otherwise it would be like not paying your taxes or voting, but expecting the government to deliver services. Not going to happen.

 

If you are a club member then go start by asking your club if they are involved at a regional level, or rather why they are not involved and keeping you informed.

 

This is the mistake people often make, its not about what answer is, but rather what the answerS are. There is always more than one solution.

 

Plans are only success if we "do this AND that", not "do this OR that".

That just creates microcosms of people fighting over which solution is best.

"You drive your solution, I will drive mine and together we will probably have a greater success." I know this sounds corny, but its works.

 

So yes, you make a good point about some of the solution starting at the club level. But that doesn't mean management doesn't need to change too.  

Edited June 1, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Napalm]

And this "“My ideas were shot down in the past, but it took me four days to get a R50 000 sponsorship to start professional cycling." - getting sponsorship's these days are not the easiest things to do

 

Don't we know that. The guy in charge of getting sponsorship at the CSA couldn't find a single one in 4 years. 

[Patchelicious]

Don't we know that. The guy in charge of getting sponsorship at the CSA couldn't find a single one in 4 years. 

No no, its the regions fault, incompetent management has nothing to do with it!

 

(Im being facetious, so dont wet your pants)

Edited June 1, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Rolling Stone]

No no, its the regions fault, incompetent management has nothing to do with it!

 

(Im being facetious, so dont wet your pants)

No offence taken.  Of course, you also have a point. I am also not happy with how things were run.

 

I am just so very concerned at how few members clubs have, how very few riders are affiliated to CSA and how few people really are willing to do something to get our sport back on track.

 

My guess is that less than 20 % of cyclists in our country are actually club members or affiliated to CSA. We have lost two generations of possible champions because their Regions and National body could not support them effectively. Especially in the disciplines where big contracts and sponsors are not easy to get. The funny thing is that those are the disciplines where there are world, Commonwealth and Olympic medals up for grabs.

 

This did not happen in 4 years. This is a big ship to turn and it needs hands.

It is much easier to start at club and regional level. You will not believe the amount of good you could do.

[Frosty]

So what do you suggest happens at CSA?

He can’t say, unless he’s appointed.

 

 

On a serious note, some valid points are made, like moving away from a committee-based management to business-type management, with defined responsibilities.

 

As a race organisation, we have engaged with CSA (including your tjommie, MB) to express concerns, made suggestions and heard their plans. Sadly, a poorly executed plan is as good as no plan - or worse.

 

 

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[gogo@]

I am just so very concerned at how few members clubs have, how very few riders are affiliated to CSA and how few people really are willing to do something to get our sport back on track.

 

My guess is that less than 20 % of cyclists in our country are actually club members or affiliated to CSA.

Concerns shared. But the question I have is, what’s in it for the club member? Why belong to a club and even more, why join CSA?

[Napalm]

Concerns shared. But the question I have is, what’s in it for the club member? Why belong to a club and even more, why join CSA?

 

There no benefit. They don't really care about the normal cyclist or spend money on them. And for the pro's even less. The pro's have to hold a bakesale everytime their selected to represent the country, because there's no money for them either. 

[Frosty]

Gauteng cycling (the province, not the region) is holding a special AGM tomorrow. Hector Norris Park is the venue @ 17:00.

Part of the invite communicated mentioned sending to all clubs that have paid their affiliation fees for the year. Problem is: it’s not compulsory to join a club, but every person that pays their CSA membership automatically pays their regional fee (R50 or R75 depending on the region) via CyclingSA.

Questions should be asked:

“Why only clubs that have paid fees? What about the individuals?”.

"CyclingSA deducts the regional fee, so they have a database of all members". Why not communicate individually with all members.

 

 

This will be asked by my club chairman, and race organiser too, among other questions. If anyone wants a chance to bitch, complain, speak their mind, suggest, compliment, etc... here is your chance.

Gauteng Cycling Call to AGM.pdf

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Edited June 1, 2018 by Frosty

[i24]

 

Structural diagram CSA.pd

 

 

 

I am not a member of CSA and have no intention of joining. But I am curious so I had a look at the diagram. I notice:

 

Elected Positions: President ...

 

So who gets to vote? A bunch of "nominated delegates" from various regions, or all of the paid up members of CSA?

When do they next get to vote?

How often does the President's post come up for re-election?

If Mr Hog was nominated, why did his name not appear on a ballot paper?

 

Someone should nominate Rolling Stone for President and a bunch of paid up members of CSA should pitch up at the General Meeting and vote him in. Put CSA back in the hands of the riders at grass roots level and things will sort themselves out!

[Rolling Stone]

I am not a member of CSA and have no intention of joining. But I am curious so I had a look at the diagram. I notice:

 

Elected Positions: President ...

 

So who gets to vote? A bunch of "nominated delegates" from various regions, or all of the paid up members of CSA?

When do they next get to vote?

How often does the President's post come up for re-election?

If Mr Hog was nominated, why did his name not appear on a ballot paper?

 

Someone should nominate Rolling Stone for President and a bunch of paid up members of CSA should pitch up at the General Meeting and vote him in. Put CSA back in the hands of the riders at grass roots level and things will sort themselves out!

I am not a member of CSA and have no intention of joining. But I am curious so I had a look at the diagram. I notice:

 

Elected Positions: President ...

 

So who gets to vote? A bunch of "nominated delegates" from various regions, or all of the paid up members of CSA?

When do they next get to vote?

How often does the President's post come up for re-election?

If Mr Hog was nominated, why did his name not appear on a ballot paper?

 

Someone should nominate Rolling Stone for President and a bunch of paid up members of CSA should pitch up at the General Meeting and vote him in. Put CSA back in the hands of the riders at grass roots level and things will sort themselves out!

Not that easy, Rolling Stone is busy enough trying to make a difference at his region.

The CSA constitution is on CSA web site, explains it all.

Your province has a seat and a vote, and that is why it is so important that you make sure the regions and provinces are run well and your representative has a clear mandate from the province. My region has almost 70 clubs in it and at the last AGM only 8 of these sent a representative, for a large region this is totaly unacceptable, but that is what happens when clubs start feeling that there is nothing in it for them, they lose interest . Clubs need to get involved and demand accountability while also making resources (people) available to do the job.

A well run province can demand accountability at CSA level and that started happening last year I believe. Almal het wakker geskrik. Een moerse groot skrik.

I can honestly say that a lot has changed at CSA level and improvements are being made all the time. There is stil a long way to go though. I am not involved at CSA level but close enough to see the changes happening.

Even without a president. Money matters are looking a lot better and administration seems to be up to date etc.

The wrong president can cause more harm than good sometimes. I absolutely agree that the president needs to come from within the current active cycling fraternity. We do not need another wise guy, we have enough of them on here

We do not need rocket science, get admin together, make sure that all the structures down to club level are run in such a manner that they can qualify for LOTTO funding and we are on our way. Sounds simple hey.

 

Well that is how broken it was.

 

All is not lost though,some provinces and regions are being run well and are picking the fruits. Just look at development in Natal and WP, I am talking kids that can really hold their own on a bike, not just throwing money and window dressing.

[Patchelicious]

 

Not that easy, Rolling Stone is busy enough trying to make a difference at his region.

The CSA constitution is on CSA web site, explains it all.

Your province has a seat and a vote, and that is why it is so important that you make sure the regions and provinces are run well and your representative has a clear mandate from the province. My region has almost 70 clubs in it and at the last AGM only 8 of these sent a representative, for a large region this is totaly unacceptable, but that is what happens when clubs start feeling that there is nothing in it for them, they lose interest . Clubs need to get involved and demand accountability while also making resources (people) available to do the job.

A well run province can demand accountability at CSA level and that started happening last year I believe. Almal het wakker geskrik. Een moerse groot skrik.

I can honestly say that a lot has changed at CSA level and improvements are being made all the time. There is stil a long way to go though. I am not involved at CSA level but close enough to see the changes happening.

Even without a president. Money matters are looking a lot better and administration seems to be up to date etc.

The wrong president can cause more harm than good sometimes. I absolutely agree that the president needs to come from within the current active cycling fraternity. We do not need another wise guy, we have enough of them on here

We do not need rocket science, get admin together, make sure that all the structures down to club level are run in such a manner that they can qualify for LOTTO funding and we are on our way. Sounds simple hey.

 

Well that is how broken it was.

 

All is not lost though,some provinces and regions are being run well and are picking the fruits. Just look at development in Natal and WP, I am talking kids that can really hold their own on a bike, not just throwing money and window dressing.

These kids that doing so well and can hold their own, who is funding their trips overseas to represent SA?

[daniemare]

So the constitution prevents Mr Hogg from entering the fray. Maybe it is this exact constitution that is the problem with Cycling SA.

 

These federal (bottom up) structures we have in South Africa are so arhaic, harking to a bygone era of amateurism and pre-internet age. Hell, look at the pdf someone added here of the structures, and I do not even think there is enough total membership to fill all of those positions, nevermind elect from a talent/passion pool of more than 10 people per position.

 

We live in an inter-connected age, where the internet can be used by any race organiser to get his/her race out there.  You do not need a club that manually writes up the calendar for the next month on the local club house bulitin board. Cycling SA can use twitter, facebook and e-mail to disseminate their message, no need for a written cascade through provincial & regional levels to get to the average cyclist.

 

Jeez, we buy R100k bikes and powermeters, but try buying a CSA membership online. Or have them run "your llicense year" from the date of purchase.

 

They try to attract youth, whose whole sense of belonging are vested in their close circle of friends or a wider "online community", but we try and compel to belong to a provincial body and club. You want him/her to attend a physical AGM on a Tursday night after sitting 2 hours in peak hour traffic. Come on, ever heard of Facebook Livestream and the like (but no, the consitution requires a quorum from physically present people or original proxys printed out and hand written)

 

CSA, and other Sporting Bodies in SA need to wake up. Your Objective, Goal and Reason for Existance needs to be redefined. The world within which you operate has changed significantly. Organisational and Management Structures need to reflect this redefinition.

[Frosty]

Jeez, we buy R100k bikes and powermeters, but try buying a CSA membership online. Or have them run "your llicense year" from the date of purchase.

1. A racing licence is issued according to UCI rules - Jan-Dec;

2. Membership is 12-months from date of issue.

 

Renewing it is not that difficult. This isn’t really a problem.

 

CSA, and other Sporting Bodies in SA need to wake up. Your Objective, Goal and Reason for Existance needs to be redefined. The world within which you operate has changed significantly. Organisational and Management Structures need to reflect this redefinition.

They need to change to become a customer-driven organisation. Engage with them, and not only send a mail.

 

 

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[Rolling Stone]

These kids that doing so well and can hold their own, who is funding their trips overseas to represent SA?

 Part of the lost generation I am afraid. Just thinking of our two Track juniors that just qualified to go to Junior Worlds. Just maybe we can still pick up the pieces before they are lost to. Bernard would be a good example of someone that was let down by the system, there are many more.  But we all know that, even the guys at CSA know it. 

 

So rally up the soldiers and make a difference now or come with a secret plan in 30 years time. We both know what the answer is and I would be surprised if you are not getting your hands dirty somewhere already.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Rolling Stone

[Rolling Stone]

Concerns shared. But the question I have is, what’s in it for the club member? Why belong to a club and even more, why join CSA?

I am not exactly sure why you may not need to or want to join a club. Unless the club offers you some value, something you need.  If you are just a fun rider and do not need any support from your club, region or CSA then  maybe not.

 

My club offers me free weekly coaching sessions, rental bikes, racing on weekends, a fun bunch of guys that I can talk bikes to. They assist when someone is good enough to qualify for anything like regional or national colours, or get selected for a team or is good enough to crack an SA record. They assist with skills training for new entrants to the sport, develop young riders and communicate relevant information that I may otherwise have completely missed.

The scary part is that said club still has very few paid up members. Everyone wants a free ride.

 

Cycling in SA is not all about racing, everyone does not need a club or CSA. That is ok. But if you do belong to a club and CSA then you have the right to get involved and you have the right to vent on this thread I believe.  

Edited June 1, 2018 by Rolling Stone

[Rolling Stone]

Man I am now tired of talking k#k to you lot.

Going to fit my new Specialized saddle, take a few puffs of my asthma pump and ride my bike.

Have an awesome weekend boys and girls.

 

O and please cut the boys at CSA some slack.