Would you pay to ride the Spruit

[Dubsymike]

So, in light of yet another violent attack near Emmarentia yesterday, would you pay to use the Spruit, if those funds were applied towards increased security, track maintenance and track building (emphasis on the first)?

 

This is highly theoretical for now because it is a public space, so City Parks would need to authorise it and be involved. It'd be tough to administer because of the multiple entry points. Would it include walkers/joggers too?

 

In short there are many logistics to work through, but if the response is strong, it may be worth pursuing.

 

Let's have your thoughts!

[Paddaman]

My bit of social activism.

It is the SAPS' and municipal police responsibility to patrol and protect public spaces.  Public Spaces belong to the PUBLIC  which means that no mater how rich or how poor you are you should have free access to the facilities and amenities of these spaces.

I get very upset when the "government" or "municipality" abscond/abdicate their responsibilities to society by not policing public space.  THAT IS WHY WE PAY TAX.

I also get upset by "business minded people" that innocently suggest that we should pay a company/individual ext a fee so that we can be safe.  That is double tax and allows the politician/municipality/police to get away with CORRUPTION and INCOMPETENCY.  It is almost but not yet, like driving to Saxonwold and giving your money to Ajay and Atul Gupta.  (however, if the money collected is used to buy equipment and petrol for the SAPS and municipal police it would be marginally better)

Also it creates a gap between the haves and the have nots.  It puts financial pressure on the lower middle class and effectively excludes them from the opportunity to participate and later compete in our sports.  It becomes an entry barrier to keep the "riff raff" out and keep cycling and trail running as elitist sports.

 

Rant off

[Dubsymike]

My bit of social activism.

It is the SAPS' and municipal police responsibility to patrol and protect public spaces.  Public Spaces belong to the PUBLIC  which means that no mater how rich or how poor you are you should have free access to the facilities and amenities of these spaces.

I get very upset when the "government" or "municipality" abscond/abdicate their responsibilities to society by not policing public space.  THAT IS WHY WE PAY TAX.

I also get upset by "business minded people" that innocently suggest that we should pay a company/individual ext a fee so that we can be safe.  That is double tax and allows the politician/municipality/police to get away with CORRUPTION and INCOMPETENCY.  It is almost but not yet, like driving to Saxonwold and giving your money to Ajay and Atul Gupta.  (however, if the money collected is used to buy equipment and petrol for the SAPS and municipal police it would be marginally better)

Also it creates a gap between the haves and the have nots.  It puts financial pressure on the lower middle class and effectively excludes them from the opportunity to participate and later compete in our sports.  It becomes an entry barrier to keep the "riff raff" out and keep cycling and trail running as elitist sports.

 

Rant off

Largely valid comment Paddaman and correct in principle.

 

BUT, the question here is whether you would rather stand on principle, or actively ensure your own safety. Cast your vote!

[eddy]

There is no way you can secure a space the shape and nature of the spruit for R20 a ride. It is just not feasible.

 

The upper part where these attacks occurred is safe because of the dog walkers etc who use it except for the little loop and path along the fence where the thugs can escape down the stormwater drain.

 

Plug that gap and it should go some way to make that part safer.

[Patchelicious]

More and more services are being privatized due to government incompetency.

 

Post office, telecoms, power, airlines, security etc etc.

 

As much as we want them to handle these things and correctly demand that we get this because we pay so much tax, they aren’t solving the problems. So we have some options, We can demand that they do it, but probably won’t, or we can do something about it, still have some quality of life, WHILE we demand that they do it.

 

I would support some form of security, on the condition that we also petition the local councilors to do something about a more permanent and sustainable solution. So to me it’s not a “this or that” situation but rather a “this AND that” situation.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Patchelicious

[thisismyotherbike]

More and more services are being privatized due to government incompetency.

 

Post office, telecoms, power, airlines, security etc etc.

 

As much as we want them to handle these things and correctly demand that we get this because we pay so much tax, they aren’t solving the problems. So we have some options, We can demand that they do it, but probably won’t, or we can do something about it, still have some quality of life, WHILE we demand that they do it.

 

I would support some form of security, on the condition that we also petition the local councilors to do something about a more permanent and sustainable solution. So to me it’s not a “this or that” situation but rather a “this AND that” situation.

 

Taking over the government's functions has been a great private sector (not to mention investment) strategy, add education (Advtech and Curro) and healthcare (Discovery, Mediclinic, Netcare, Life Healthcare) to your list.  We have private companies collecting municipal debt on behalf of local government now.  There's nothing wrong with applying it to safety in public spaces as well.

 

Importantly, paying for a safer Spruit doesn't have to mean the general public is suddenly precluded from using this public space.  Nor does it mean that we accept that the SAPS no longer needs to be held responsible for our safety.  On the contrary, the fact that private citizens are desperate enough to pay for what is a basic public service on top of our burdensome taxes should demonstrate clearly that safety is an area where resources should be allocated.  The activism can also continue.

[100Tours]

I would happily pay an annual or monthly membership towards security - maybe with some number board or something to identify - but please please please don't ask me to pay for each time I use it.. I like to dip in and out at all times of the day.. just visiting the access point and stamping my card or paying my money would ruin it for me.

 

I think you would get reasonable support with a number of big signboards that says 'please buy your number to use these trails' posted up and down the spruit.

 

my 2c worth

Edited January 11, 2018 by 100Tours

[Paddaman]

Would you be willing to pay, knowing that other users are NOT paying, yet receiving the same security service?

[King_Crispy]

That's an utter bu11sh1t proposal.

Like our dumbass department of transport telling Outsurance they're not allowed to fill pot-holes.

There is no way on God's earth they could ever secure that area. It's pretty stupid to think that could be secured.

And I'm not paying twice or 3 times to ensure my "safety." All that will happen is contracts will be put in place, we will part with our cash and the thieving bastards will carry on robbing us cyclists

[Patchelicious]

That's an utter bu11sh1t proposal.

Like our dumbass department of transport telling Outsurance they're not allowed to fill pot-holes.

There is no way on God's earth they could ever secure that area. It's pretty stupid to think that could be secured.

And I'm not paying twice or 3 times to ensure my "safety." All that will happen is contracts will be put in place, we will part with our cash and the thieving bastards will carry on robbing us cyclists

We implemented a privately run contract with some success in my parents area in Somerset. Can work.

 

Was DialDirect that was stopped from doing the potholes, OUTsurance does the piontsmen.

[King_Crispy]

We implemented a privately run contract with some success in my parents area in Somerset. Can work.

 

Was DialDirect that was stopped from doing the potholes, OUTsurance does the piontsmen.

Good man. Pothole Brigade was indeed a DialDirect project, although Outsurance was snubbed when they initially came up with the idea.

 

Our Gauteng perps are more vicious than our CFM tjommies. I doubt a project like this in that area of jhb will ever yield favourable results. I personally know of 4 separate incidents on the spruit that have happened that will happen again even if there were "guards" patrolling

[100Tours]

Would you be willing to pay, knowing that other users are NOT paying, yet receiving the same security service?

 

Um. yes? Just like I'm prepared to fill the pothole in my street myself eventually, or trim the trees on my verge because it makes my life better.

 

there are some good creative ways to deal with this issue - how about a minimum payment model?

 

"Please support the spruit by buying your number board for R100 a year. If you'd like to contribute a bit more please buy 2 (or 10)."

 

If this was a project that was supported by the swampdogs and CycleLab you would have good exposure to a lot of riders, and over time the guys riding without would be few. (this is a lot like the way the canoe club works - no enforcement, except by the canoeists themselves giving you the evil eye)

Edited January 11, 2018 by 100Tours

[100Tours]

That's an utter bu11sh1t proposal.

Like our dumbass department of transport telling Outsurance they're not allowed to fill pot-holes.

There is no way on God's earth they could ever secure that area. It's pretty stupid to think that could be secured.

And I'm not paying twice or 3 times to ensure my "safety." All that will happen is contracts will be put in place, we will part with our cash and the thieving bastards will carry on robbing us cyclists

 

There was a guard posted in the area where this incident happened for a while last year (after a previous incident). It may help to make this permanent. Remember so far these are guys with knives and this is a single entrance/vulnerability in an otherwise well controlled area. There are other more exposed areas on the spruit, but most early morning cyclists will avoid them.

Edited January 11, 2018 by 100Tours

[Madala]

Something is seriously wrong because the reality of the situation is that the recent attacks have all occurred within the boundaries of the "Johannesburg Botanical Gardens" which is a "fenced" area with restricted access times and is "patrolled" by a private security company which I assume is employed by City Parks. This is about as good as one can hope for and better than we have or can hope to achieve anywhere else along the entire length of the Spruit. I don't have an explanation as to why this secured area has become a hot spot but would welcome some discussion. Any ideas?      

[scotty]

That's an utter bu11sh1t proposal.

Like our dumbass department of transport telling Outsurance they're not allowed to fill pot-holes.

There is no way on God's earth they could ever secure that area. It's pretty stupid to think that could be secured.

And I'm not paying twice or 3 times to ensure my "safety." All that will happen is contracts will be put in place, we will part with our cash and the thieving bastards will carry on robbing us cyclists

Dial direct were doing it for free, someone in the council saw a way to make money out of it and claimed under the pretense that they had complaints Dial Direct were getting "free advertising" wanted it to be put to tender, they then realized with the public outcry that it would draw too much attention and dropped it. 

 

I'm in agreement public land should be open to all, In Kempton Park we have a piece of land used for MTB (Riverfields) which is privately owned. The track is managed by Finishline and users make voluntary payments for upkeep and safety.  

[ByronH]

I would happily pay an annual or monthly membership towards security - maybe with some number board or something to identify - but please please please don't ask me to pay for each time I use it.. I like to dip in and out at all times of the day.. just visiting the access point and stamping my card or paying my money would ruin it for me.

 

I think you would get reasonable support with a number of big signboards that says 'please buy your number to use these trails' posted up and down the spruit.

 

my 2c worth

 

Agreed, as a commuter, I often use small sections of the spruit intermittently depending on my route. so to pay every single time would be unfeasible for me.

 

I would however contribute for a quarterly or annual security/trail maintenance fee happily if I saw the funds being put to good use (already true for the trail maintenance part).

 

And if others choose not to pay, but they still benefit from a few of us paying, thats also fine by me... A safer and more enjoyable Spruit is good for everyone in the community, even if only a few heroes want to contribute.