Plant Based.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

That humans and their ancestors have been eating meat for quite a long time is indisputable. 

 

Does the current levels consumption of animal products contribute to optimal health? On my understanding of the available research, the answer is a resounding 'no'. 

 

That being said, the 'Standard Western Diet' is unimaginably far removed from the dietary habits of humans of ~1 million years ago. 

100%

[lechatnoir]

I like this.

 

Before we needed to hunt for meat - meat consumption was semi regular and sometimes random.

 

Now we pop it into our shopping trollies and take it home. Boom.

 

The "modern" diet is littered with evils - too much sugar, colourants, preservatives, emulsifiers, fats, carbs etc. 

 

That said - the body is pretty good at handling all the crap we load it with.

 

My solution is to "keep an eye on it" and make decent food choices. Eat too healthy and you're miserable AF - eat too badly and your body suffers - finding the right balance is the key.

 

My mantra is "some food is good for the body and some food is good for the soul".

 

Back in the day ( ) it was feast or famine. Now it's feastfeastfeast - on all manner of things

 

As for the body being pretty good at dealing with the k@k@ we put in, I'm not too sure hey. So many maladies that CAN be attributed to diet these days. Each of us is a chemical experiment, so mess up the balance, and who knows what'll happen.

 

As for eating too healthy, I don't know what that is... I DO know one thing, that our ancestors ate a lot less sugar than we do today. So there's that

 

As for being plant-based, I believe humans evolved to be meat eaters (think endurance to chase animals, agility to throw rocks and spears - we didn't just throw things at plants). However, I KNOW that the current system that provides us with meat is deeply flawed. But that's a different conversation

[Odinson]

Problem with any study is how it's interpreted, so we can literally go on forever citing articles to prove our point.

However, there is a strong correlation between premature pregnancies and plant based diets due to lack of Vit B12 (which is not found in plants) - something like >20% higher prevalence. There is also further speculation of Vit B12 on brain development of infants. 

 

Why do I use this as my argument. Well, pregnancy/reproduction is vital part of life, the cost of reproduction is also a measure of health.  

 

You remove modern medicine from the equation, and put humans in a situation where animal proteins are not available, and have them deal with premature pregnancies. Natural selection will not favour that group to thrive and carry it genes over to many generations. On the flip side, there might eventually evolve someone which is adapted again. Which is the beauty of it.

 

You're argument is flawed. 

 

Considering that you've stuck you're colours to the vitamin B-12 mast, let's have a look at it. 

 

First off, no plant or animal is biologically capable of producing B-12. B-12 is produced by bacteria and archaea. Back in the good ol' days, y,know, B-12 wasn't a concern, because our food was a bit dirtier and thus we consumed both plants covered in these little buggers and ate animals, who also ate plants that were covered in it. 

 

However, due to current methods of agriculture, most plants' surfaces are stripped of B-12 producing microbes. Thus, for those on a plant-based diet, popping a B-12 supplement once a week is sufficient to cover your B-12 needs. 

[Eldron]

 

As for being plant-based, I believe humans evolved to be meat eaters (think endurance to chase animals, agility to throw rocks and spears - we didn't just throw things at plants). However, I KNOW that the current system that provides us with meat is deeply flawed. But that's a different conversation

 

I really like this article (that promotes the idea that we're omnivores): https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/12/23/how-humans-evolved-to-be-natural-omnivores/#4488cf997af5

 

To cool part is that we live in an age where we can choose to be carnivorous, omnivorous or vegan - all the right bits too supplement a vegan/carnivorous diet are available - theoretically you don't have to supplement an omnivorous diet.

[Eldron]

 

First off, no plant or animal is biologically capable of producing B-12. B-12 is produced by bacteria and archaea. Back in the good ol' days, y,know, B-12 wasn't a concern, because our food was a bit dirtier and thus we consumed both plants covered in these little buggers and ate animals, who also ate plants that were covered in it. 

 

 

Well fook. I just learned something new!

[stefmeister]

You're argument is flawed.

 

Considering that you've stuck you're colours to the vitamin B-12 mast, let's have a look at it.

 

First off, no plant or animal is biologically capable of producing B-12. B-12 is produced by bacteria and archaea. Back in the good ol' days, y,know, B-12 wasn't a concern, because our food was a bit dirtier and thus we consumed both plants covered in these little buggers and ate animals, who also ate plants that were covered in it.

 

However, due to current methods of agriculture, most plants' surfaces are stripped of B-12 producing microbes. Thus, for those on a plant-based diet, popping a B-12 supplement once a week is sufficient to cover your B-12 needs.

As opposed to taking supplements not being flawed?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[worriesnot]

***You're argument is flawed. 

 

Considering that you've stuck you're colours to the vitamin B-12 mast, let's have a look at it. 

 

First off, no plant or animal is biologically capable of producing B-12. B-12 is produced by bacteria and archaea. Back in the good ol' days, y,know, B-12 wasn't a concern, because our food was a bit dirtier and thus we consumed both plants covered in these little buggers and ate animals, who also ate plants that were covered in it. 

 

However, due to current methods of agriculture, most plants' surfaces are stripped of B-12 producing microbes. Thus, for those on a plant-based diet, popping a B-12 supplement once a week is sufficient to cover your B-12 needs. 

 

You sound like my endocrinologist...

 

***Also; not sure if your doing the you're vs your thing on purpose now...

[Eldron]

You sound like my endocrinologist...

 

***Also; not sure if your doing the you're vs your thing on purpose now...

 

  Now your copying him!

[Odinson]

You sound like my endocrinologist...

 

***Also; not sure if your doing the you're vs your thing on purpose now...

 

 

  Now your copying him!

 

Fark me. 

[Odinson]

As opposed to taking supplements not being flawed?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You're shifting the goal posts now. 

[Eldron]

Fark me. 

 

Everyone's reputation in tatters.

 

(please note correct use of the apostrophe - I think).

 

((please note the incorrect use of the hyphen - it's my thing))

[Bonker]

We're omnivores but I understand ethically why some people choose to go vegan. I therefore I have nothing against it. 

 

I think the better move would be to go vegetarian, however , if you do go vegan, I'd recommend seeing a professional regarding supplementation. Your diet should be pretty spot on when going vegan or else it can get dangerous (long term). 

 

Also, don't let the early results lead you to believe it's the perfect diet. Eating more greens and vegetables will naturally lead to you feeling and looking better. Sustaining it long term is challenge.   

 

Good luck

[Odinson]

i've been ovo-lacto veg for over 12 years (egg and diary still consumed ) - the original plan being to make the move over to vegan - has never happened, and of late I've been diagnosed with severe anaemia - to the extent i had to do 5 weekly IV Iron infusions - so I'm considering actually reintroducing non plant based into my diet. Waiting for final tests back to see. 

 

The full on vegan thing though for me is a lifestyle not a diet - so no animal byproducts at all in clothing, absolutely no animal tested products etc - not impossible but tough - and a lot of these 100% vegan cruelty free products aren't cheap. 

 

Uni, this might be of interest in you. 

 

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-safety-of-heme-vs-non-heme-iron/

 

Click on the sources cited tab and have a look at the findings of the studies. The studies conclude the positive association between coronary heart disease/certain cancers and heme iron (iron from animal blood and meat). 

 

The abstract of one study:

 

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25369923)

 

 

 

Vegetarians who eat a varied and well balanced diet are not at any greater risk of iron deficiency anaemia than non-vegetarians. A diet rich in wholegrains, legumes, nuts, seeds, dried fruits, iron-fortified cereals and green leafy vegetables provides an adequate iron intake. Vitamin C and other organic acids enhance non-haem iron absorption, a process that is carefully regulated by the gut. People with low iron stores or higher physiological need for iron will tend to absorb more iron and excrete less. Research to date on iron absorption has not been designed to accurately measure absorption rates in typical Western vegetarians with low ferritin levels.

[HDW]

Now that this exciting Friday thread has been defused, how about someone start a new thread on religion 

[Uni]

Uni, this might be of interest in you. 

 

I know i'm not a good vegetarian in terms of balance of input - i have to remind myself to add seeds and things like that, and I don't consume enough variety of food. Also I am a firm believer that a predominantly plant based diet is much healthier that a more meat based one - in terms of things like heart diseases, cancer and cholesterol . I'm predisposed to high cholesterol genetically - and by being on a plant based diet, I'm able to control my cholesterol without having to take medicines. 

 

I really do believe that diet doesn't have to be so regimented as avoiding 100% of anything. Being a flexitarian makes sense . I think any meat eater if honest would admit that eating meat every day, and often at least 2 meals a day is just too much - health wise - but that's a choice. I do want to rather try harder to eat a healthier plant based diet versus the convenience food thing - the early days I consumed a lot of soya - then it was oh no  - soya is bad. Eating a can of beans ain't life either though is it? 

[Odinson]

I know i'm not a good vegetarian in terms of balance of input - i have to remind myself to add seeds and things like that, and I don't consume enough variety of food. Also I am a firm believer that a predominantly plant based diet is much healthier that a more meat based one - in terms of things like heart diseases, cancer and cholesterol . I'm predisposed to high cholesterol genetically - and by being on a plant based diet, I'm able to control my cholesterol without having to take medicines. 

 

I really do believe that diet doesn't have to be so regimented as avoiding 100% of anything. Being a flexitarian makes sense . I think any meat eater if honest would admit that eating meat every day, and often at least 2 meals a day is just too much - health wise - but that's a choice. I do want to rather try harder to eat a healthier plant based diet versus the convenience food thing - the early days I consumed a lot of soya - then it was oh no  - soya is bad. Eating a can of beans ain't life either though is it? 

 

I get where you're coming from, Uni.

 

For me, the science is clear - a whole foods, plant-based diet is your best bet at sustained health, especially as you get older.

 

Perhaps you just need to make some small changes to your diet to get you on track. Something that might help with that is https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dr-gregers-daily-dozen/id1060700802?mt=8

 

Eating a plant-based diet doesn't require a Ph.D in nutrition, nor does it require that you only eat lettuce.