Accident in the cradle.

[The Ouzo]

So Hein, congrats on pointing out the law. 

 

 

Clearly you have done your fair share of road cycling at the Cradle, you know the infrastructure and understand the dynamics of riding in a group on the road. So what have you found works well when Marshaling a club ride of 50 people or more while keeping everybody safe?

 

Keeping in mind:

- Inexperienced riders all over the road

- Emergency situations, ie: You have dogs and warthogs walking side-by-side and sometimes crossing the road (saw it with my own eyes)

- Runners on the cycle lanes

 

 

Remember, people will stop going there if they need to sit single file all the way through a 30km loop.

 

So maybe we should just stop cycling on the road and convince people to MTB more, aw snap... that was your plan all along...

so what you're saying is that because its an inconvenience and will stop people from riding there we can ignore the law.

 

Sweet, thanks.

[Vetplant]

so what you're saying is that because its an inconvenience and will stop people from riding there we can ignore the law.

 

Sweet, thanks.

Haha, I know you are only baiting me, so yeah let's roll with it

 

I could get upset that you are putting things in my mouth that wasn't there to begin with, but then we might get a repeated "i didn't say that", "but where you said this, you meant that", blah blah blah.

 

What I am trying to get across, is to not just point fingers and tell people they are wrong.

 

Get in their shoes, do what they love, join the community. And then from that experience, lets talk about practical ways that we can have our cake and eat it.

 

How can we continue riding on the road while keeping us as safe as possible and not putting other road users at risk?

 

For example,

 

- one solution that was raised was closing off the Cradle loop from motorized traffic. Well, how would that work? Would the residents condone that? etc

- Next solution, groups of bigger than 10 should have two vehicles accompanying them, one infront and one behind, effecting a rolling road block. Would that work? etc

 

What I am telling you, is that you won't get the people riding in the Cradle to sit single file and only passing one at a time. No matter how much you tell them on The Hub what the rules of the road says.

[The Ouzo]

Haha, I know you are only baiting me, so yeah let's roll with it

 

I could get upset that you are putting things in my mouth that wasn't there to begin with, but then we might get a repeated "i didn't say that", "but where you said this, you meant that", blah blah blah.

 

What I am trying to get across, is to not just point fingers and tell people they are wrong.

 

Get in their shoes, do what they love, join the community. And then from that experience, lets talk about practical ways that we can have our cake and eat it.

 

How can we continue riding on the road while keeping us as safe as possible and not putting other road users at risk?

 

For example,

 

- one solution that was raised was closing off the Cradle loop from motorized traffic. Well, how would that work? Would the residents condone that? etc

- Next solution, groups of bigger than 10 should have two vehicles accompanying them, one infront and one behind, effecting a rolling road block. Would that work? etc

 

What I am telling you, is that you won't get the people riding in the Cradle to sit single file and only passing one at a time. No matter how much you tell them on The Hub what the rules of the road says.

there is only one law they need to remember, that is the law of physics

[Bateleur1]

Haha, I know you are only baiting me, so yeah let's roll with it

 

I could get upset that you are putting things in my mouth that wasn't there to begin with, but then we might get a repeated "i didn't say that", "but where you said this, you meant that", blah blah blah.

 

What I am trying to get across, is to not just point fingers and tell people they are wrong.

 

Get in their shoes, do what they love, join the community. And then from that experience, lets talk about practical ways that we can have our cake and eat it.

 

How can we continue riding on the road while keeping us as safe as possible and not putting other road users at risk?

 

For example,

 

- one solution that was raised was closing off the Cradle loop from motorized traffic. Well, how would that work? Would the residents condone that? etc

- Next solution, groups of bigger than 10 should have two vehicles accompanying them, one infront and one behind, effecting a rolling road block. Would that work? etc

 

What I am telling you, is that you won't get the people riding in the Cradle to sit single file and only passing one at a time. No matter how much you tell them on The Hub what the rules of the road says.

 

It was highlighted a few posts earlier in the road traffic act that you are allowed to pass ... the trick is to make NOT look as if you are riding two abreast 

[Vetplant]

It was highlighted a few posts earlier in the road traffic act that you are allowed to pass ... the trick is to make NOT look as if you are riding two abreast 

Got it, Rolling echelons, even if there are no crosswinds. Sweet 

[Jehosefat]

"We weren't riding two abreast, it was a rolling pace line. Half the riders were overtaking the other half the entire time"

[AdamA]

So Hein, congrats on pointing out the law. 

 

 

Clearly you have done your fair share of road cycling at the Cradle, you know the infrastructure and understand the dynamics of riding in a group on the road. So what have you found works well when Marshaling a club ride of 50 people or more while keeping everybody safe?

 

Keeping in mind:

- Inexperienced riders all over the road

- Emergency situations, ie: You have dogs and warthogs walking side-by-side and sometimes crossing the road (saw it with my own eyes)

- Runners on the cycle lanes

 

 

Remember, people will stop going there if they need to sit single file all the way through a 30km loop.

 

So maybe we should just stop cycling on the road and convince people to MTB more, aw snap... that was your plan all along...

 

Rookie, please forgive me for using your post to highlight the point below.

 

According to the "Law"... Club Rides are illegal unless "... the prior written consent of the MEC of the province concerned has been obtained or, where the race or sport will take place wholly within the area of jurisdiction of a local authority, the prior written consent of such local authority has been obtained."

 

... will this stop club rides... NO

... will Clubs get permission from the MEC.... Probably not... but lets unpack it for a while...

 

Individual riders (despite wearing specific Sports kit) could argue they're commuting to an ad-hoc coffee shop, and therefore they're not doing sport,

Club rides would be hard to argue as NOT SPORT as they are "arranged", with start times routes and marshals.

 

Obtaining permission for Club Rides would make the club marshals job easier as they would have the added assistance from traffic officers, and allowed to ride in the middle of the lane

 

Things to note about this regulation is 

 

1. It covers Motorsport, Drag racing and of course Cycling for Sport ( but not commuter cycling) , Running for sport, training for and doing any sport whatsoever.

2. The "Event" (ie Club Ride) would be exempt from other road rules such as Speed Limit, ridding single file, ridding exclusively in the bike lane, needing to have the mandatory reflectors and warning devices, etc. 

2. sub-regulation [5] implies that one or more Traffic officers will be present

3. The organizers of the Event (ie Club Ride) would have to cover the "Fees" for the traffic officers up go our club fees

 

... it's my Opinion ( ) that's this regulation is there to make it safe for the people doing the 'Sport' and the public... imagine that. 

 

Section 317 of the "National Traffic act 93"....

 

317. Racing and sport on public roads 

(1) For the purposes of this regulation the expression “race or sport” includes— 

   (a) any race, speed trial, reliability trial, hill climbing competition or sports meeting; or 

   (b) any other activity whatsoever— 

      (i) which may constitute a source of danger to traffic; or 

      (ii) which may hamper, impede or disrupt the normal flow of traffic.

(2) No person shall organize or take part in any race or sport on a public road, unless the prior written consent of the MEC of the province concerned has been obtained or, where the race or sport will take place wholly within the area of jurisdiction of a local authority, the prior written consent of such local authority has been obtained. 

(3) In granting consent in terms of subregulation (2), the MEC or the local authority concerned, as the case may be, may— 

   (a) in addition to any requirement prescribed in these regulations, impose such further conditions as he or she or it may deem expedient; 

   (b) exempt any person concerned with the race or sport for the duration thereof— 

      (i) from any provision of the Act regarding any speed limit or determine another speed limit for the road concerned; 

     (ii) from any other provision of the Act or from any by-law; or 

  © levy fees for defraying the expenses incurred by the Provincial Administration or local authority concerned in connection with the race or sport. 

   (4) Any consent granted in terms of subregulation (2) may be withdrawn at any time. 

   (5) A traffic officer responsible for the safety of the public in the area where the racing or sporting event is staged or a traffic officer at the scene of the event, may immediately withdraw the permission for the event or amend the conditions of the permit to ensure the safety of road users, if the staging or continuation of the event, in the traffic officer’s opinion, is causing or will cause any danger or undue obstructions for other road users or any of the participants in the event.

 [sub-reg. (5) added by r. 68, GNR.1341 w.e.f. 25 September 2003.]

[The Ouzo]

 

Rookie, please forgive me for using your post to highlight the point below.

 

According to the "Law"... Club Rides are illegal unless "... the prior written consent of the MEC of the province concerned has been obtained or, where the race or sport will take place wholly within the area of jurisdiction of a local authority, the prior written consent of such local authority has been obtained."

 

... will this stop club rides... NO

... will Clubs get permission from the MEC.... Probably not... but lets unpack it for a while...

 

Individual riders (despite wearing specific Sports kit) could argue they're commuting to an ad-hoc coffee shop, and therefore they're not doing sport,

Club rides would be hard to argue as NOT SPORT as they are "arranged", with start times routes and marshals.

 

Obtaining permission for Club Rides would make the club marshals job easier as they would have the added assistance from traffic officers, and allowed to ride in the middle of the lane

 

Things to note about this regulation is 

 

1. It covers Motorsport, Drag racing and of course Cycling for Sport ( but not commuter cycling) , Running for sport, training for and doing any sport whatsoever.

2. The "Event" (ie Club Ride) would be exempt from other road rules such as Speed Limit, ridding single file, ridding exclusively in the bike lane, needing to have the mandatory reflectors and warning devices, etc. 

2. sub-regulation [5] implies that one or more Traffic officers will be present

3. The organizers of the Event (ie Club Ride) would have to cover the "Fees" for the traffic officers up go our club fees

 

... it's my Opinion ( ) that's this regulation is there to make it safe for the people doing the 'Sport' and the public... imagine that. 

 

Section 317 of the "National Traffic act 93"....

 

317. Racing and sport on public roads 

(1) For the purposes of this regulation the expression “race or sport” includes— 

   (a) any race, speed trial, reliability trial, hill climbing competition or sports meeting; or 

   (b) any other activity whatsoever— 

      (i) which may constitute a source of danger to traffic; or 

      (ii) which may hamper, impede or disrupt the normal flow of traffic.

(2) No person shall organize or take part in any race or sport on a public road, unless the prior written consent of the MEC of the province concerned has been obtained or, where the race or sport will take place wholly within the area of jurisdiction of a local authority, the prior written consent of such local authority has been obtained. 

(3) In granting consent in terms of subregulation (2), the MEC or the local authority concerned, as the case may be, may— 

   (a) in addition to any requirement prescribed in these regulations, impose such further conditions as he or she or it may deem expedient; 

   (b) exempt any person concerned with the race or sport for the duration thereof— 

      (i) from any provision of the Act regarding any speed limit or determine another speed limit for the road concerned; 

     (ii) from any other provision of the Act or from any by-law; or 

  © levy fees for defraying the expenses incurred by the Provincial Administration or local authority concerned in connection with the race or sport. 

   (4) Any consent granted in terms of subregulation (2) may be withdrawn at any time. 

   (5) A traffic officer responsible for the safety of the public in the area where the racing or sporting event is staged or a traffic officer at the scene of the event, may immediately withdraw the permission for the event or amend the conditions of the permit to ensure the safety of road users, if the staging or continuation of the event, in the traffic officer’s opinion, is causing or will cause any danger or undue obstructions for other road users or any of the participants in the event.

 [sub-reg. (5) added by r. 68, GNR.1341 w.e.f. 25 September 2003.]

 

this could even extend to the neighbourhood kids having a game of cricket or soccer in the street

[AdamA]

this could even extend to the neighbourhood kids having a game of cricket or soccer in the street

 

Yip...

Is it going to stop the kids... No

are the parents going to blame everyone else when on of the kids gets run over... probably 

 

Italics for sarcasm:

Imaging the kid gets knock over by 2 cyclists riding 2 abreast on a club ride.

[Tristand]

Group riding is risky - we all know this. Trying to dissect decisions that were made in split seconds at (probably) high speeds is not doing anyone any good. 

 

The lesson here is to lets all be extra careful moving forward as there is a lot of construction happening in the Cradle at present, and maybe ride in smaller groups that are more predictable. 

 

You can also just avoid the section between the lion&rhino park circle and the caves. That seems to be where the vast majority of the nonsense happens.

 

The increasing activity in the cradle makes me think that the cycle lanes should be extended further in the general area. There certainly seems to be a market for it.

[Coolspin]

Cradle must be busy early on in the day, like between 6 & 9, Im such a lazy git, by the time I wake up and cruise out there everyone else has gone home.

 

I swear i almost died of thirst out there one summers day, not another cyclist to be seen, they would have only found me the following week (at 6am).

 

Point being, ride later, less people, bunches are home already.

[Patchelicious]

Cradle must be busy early on in the day, like between 6 & 9, Im such a lazy git, by the time I wake up and cruise out there everyone else has gone home.

 

I swear i almost died of thirst out there one summers day, not another cyclist to be seen, they would have only found me the following week (at 6am).

 

Point being, ride later, less people, bunches are home already.

Shhhhhh that’s like giving a secret surf spot away.

[eddy]

If that basic principles were not followed then you need to take responsibility for your own actions and cant blame a truck when it is where it was supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

The truck was NOT where it was meant to be.

 

You are constantlty pointing out the law, so consider it in full.

 

A driver may not overtake unless it is safe to do so. The mere fact that there was oncoming traffic that believed it necessary to take evasive action shows that it was not safe.

[mazambaan]

As often I have no dog in this fight but the comment about cycle lanes seems to have some merit. Remember that road downhill on Day 2 of Sani - one local (Charlie - keen mtb rider; freedom challenge etc) made it his mission to get a cycle lane built. ok he had a small construction company but that gave Sani cyclists (and locals the year round) the relative safety of Charlie's Catwalk (see the clip of the pro I think who went otb on it). Possible in the Cradle?

[Patchelicious]

The truck was NOT where it was meant to be.

 

You are constantlty pointing out the law, so consider it in full.

 

A driver may not overtake unless it is safe to do so. The mere fact that there was oncoming traffic that believed it necessary to take evasive action shows that it was not safe.

As per Shaper, at the time the truck decided to overtake, it was safe to do so.

 

Then things changed.

 

Again, according to Shaper, the cyclists did not take evasive action for the truck, but rather each other which in turn lead to an unsafe situation.

 

I think it’s speculative to blame this all on the driver, because a cyclist decided to brake for some reason, causing others to take evasive action from each other and not the truck.

 

Why are we ignoring the people who were there? Let’s rather ASK them for inputs we need to make up our minds? I’ve known Shapes for years and he’s not the type to make up things or exaggerate stories.

[King_Crispy]

We ignore the stated facts of people that were there and always blame the truck driver no matter what.

 

I feel the truck driver was being courteous to both groups to drive in the middle of the road to give both groups equal space on the road to pass as it was clearly safe for him to do so with NO oncoming traffic. The fact that 1 group lost its cool and force someone into the road has nothing to do with the truck driver and everything to do with the discipline in that said group.

Sweetie, you've missed a very valuable point. You are disregarding the fact that there was a bunch of cyclists approaching the truck. They, by legal classification and definition, are the "oncoming traffic" referred to.

So technically speaking, the truck driver performed an illegal passing maneuver by doing so in the face of oncomming traffic.

Finish and klaar.