Indoor power vs outdoor power

[8_Mad]

Hi Hubbers

 

I am a complete noob when it comes to power based training. I've recently invested in a Stages power meter with the aim of getting more out of the little training time I have available.

 

The power meter has been on my bike for while now but I have only recently started with a structured training program. I noticed my indoor power output is around 20 - 30 watts lower then my outdoor power output. For example, 200 watts outdoors feels much easier then 200watts indoors. Did anybody else experience this, could it be my trainer? I am using an old Giant magnetic trainer.

[Furbz]

ditto.

i find the same on any all all indoor trainers i have use. that said my kickr gives a far better feeling and the numbers seem to be closer.

[Vetplant]

Hi Hubbers

 

I am a complete noob when it comes to power based training. I've recently invested in a Stages power meter with the aim of getting more out of the little training time I have available.

 

The power meter has been on my bike for while now but I have only recently started with a structured training program. I noticed my indoor power output is around 20 - 30 watts lower then my outdoor power output. For example, 200 watts outdoors feels much easier then 200watts indoors. Did anybody else experience this, could it be my trainer? I am using an old Giant magnetic trainer.

Firstly, good move on getting the stages and using it indoors and outdoors.

 

It measures the actual power generated by your legs, so trainer shouldn't have an effect.

 

However, there are material differences in exercising indoors vs outdoors including distractions, better ventilation and a whole host of things that can firstly make it feel easier outdoors but you are also not constrained to a rigid trainer outdoors which could also mean that you can use more of your body to generate power.

 

That being said, what your should remember, which typically applies is:

 

1) You can deliver more power on race day than on a training ride because of the adrenaline etc

2) You can deliver more power outside vs on a indoor trainer.

 

So what do you do with this knowledge:

 

You need to know what your power zones are for where you are doing your training.

 

If you do most or all of your training indoors there is a very good chance that you will be training in the wrong zones if you use your race day power output as guidelines. You need to test your FTP on the tool that you will train on.

 

Then come race day, if you want to use power to guide your efforts in the race you can adjust it upward accordingly to the power levels you attained at previous events.

 

Enjoy training with power, it made a big difference in my performances!

[bertusras]

ditto.

i find the same on any all all indoor trainers i have use. that said my kickr gives a far better feeling and the numbers seem to be closer.

 

Well that's where my mind went initially as well. But he is using his crank-based power meter on a "dumb" trainer. So it's the same device measuring inside and outside.

 

Personally a big thing for me indoors is the heat factor. Your body works much harder to cool down than it would outside in the wind. And you are always pedaling.

[Christie]

I noticed the same. FTP tests (I did many over a 4 year window) were about 10% lower indoors, measured with 3 different brands of power meter. I managed by creating seperate profiles on trainingpeaks

[cadenceblur]

yes, the factors mentioned above along with the fact that you are constantly  pedaling against resistance, giving your legs no break where on road any small pause in pedaling action has very little impact.

 

I have heard that you need adjust but about 10% higher for outdoor efforts.

 

 A fan and well ventilated environment is also very important to assist in keeping your body temperature down.

[shaper]

Summed up here nicely as to why the difference https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/adjusting-your-functional-threshold-power-for-indoor-riding/

[8_Mad]

The indoor/outdoor variation does complicates things somewhat.

 

I was hoping I could train indoors and use the same FTP and power zones to train and measure outside efforts. I speak under correction but FTP in essence is an approximation , wouldn't adjusting it upwards by a percentage make the outside FTP even less reliable?

 

One way around it is to have an FTP for inside and outside, not sure how practical that is for me though as I am still getting to grips with power based training as a concept, having to deal with two data sets is going to do my head in.

 

What does the rest of you Hubber's do when venturing outdoors with your indoor data?

[bertusras]

Well I would concentrate the bulk of my training to where there are fewer variables and more controls, i.e. the indoor trainer, and use the road-going power as a guideline and adjust accordingly if required?

[8_Mad]

Summed up here nicely as to why the difference https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/adjusting-your-functional-threshold-power-for-indoor-riding/

 

Interesting! Nice to know I'm not the only one, think I'll suck up the 30watt drop in FTP and train accordingly indoors, hopefully I can narrow the gap to my outdoors FTP as the fitness grows.

 

Those direct drive trainers also seem a hell of a lot more appealing now.

[s14phoenix]

Interesting! Nice to know I'm not the only one, think I'll suck up the 30watt drop in FTP and train accordingly indoors, hopefully I can narrow the gap to my outdoors FTP as the fitness grows.

 

Those direct drive trainers also seem a hell of a lot more appealing now.

 

You will probably find that the gap will remain as your outdoor ftp will increase as well when you improve indoor ftp. It's more up to the equipment and conditions difference - the direct drive is really the only way to close the gap somewhat.

[shaper]

The indoor/outdoor variation does complicates things somewhat.

 

I was hoping I could train indoors and use the same FTP and power zones to train and measure outside efforts. I speak under correction but FTP in essence is an approximation , wouldn't adjusting it upwards by a percentage make the outside FTP even less reliable?

 

One way around it is to have an FTP for inside and outside, not sure how practical that is for me though as I am still getting to grips with power based training as a concept, having to deal with two data sets is going to do my head in.

 

What does the rest of you Hubber's do when venturing outdoors with your indoor data?

Personally I do all my FTP tests indoors and set my zones for all my indoor training as that is where all my structured workouts take place.  Outdoor rides are not generally structured, whether riding alone or group riding.

 

Knowing that there is a higher FTP for outside, means that if am racing, then I know I have a bit more in the tank if needs be

 

If am not racing just training and doing distance, then most of my outdoor rides are done in endurance or tempo zones (unlikely to be sitting at FTP), and with an upper and lower limit to all zones it is unlikely to be affected much by the difference of indoor verses outdoor.

 

I guess it depends on you and whether you feel it will be a big issue.

 

For me is not an issue and I gauge my improvement based on only my indoor FTP tests.

[Vetplant]

Personally I do all my FTP tests indoors and set my zones for all my indoor training as that is where all my structured workouts take place.  Outdoor rides are not generally structured, whether riding alone or group riding.

 

Knowing that there is a higher FTP for outside, means that if am racing, then I know I have a bit more in the tank if needs be

 

If am not racing just training and doing distance, then most of my outdoor rides are done in endurance or tempo zones (unlikely to be sitting at FTP), and with an upper and lower limit to all zones it is unlikely to be affected much by the difference of indoor verses outdoor.

 

I guess it depends on you and whether you feel it will be a big issue.

 

For me is not an issue and I gauge my improvement based on only my indoor FTP tests.

^^This 

 

You will struggle to do intervals and structured training outdoors.

 

However, where the outdoor power becomes useful is if you get power capabilities per timeframe from web based services like TodaysPlan or StagesLink where they will log your capabilities.

 

So you will know what the power reading you can sustain based on historical data for:

5s

10s

20s

30s

1min

...

all the way to 3 hours or more.

 

That way you can gauge an attack or an attempt to bridge a gap by sticking to a certain power level for a known time period. Or if you know roughly how long a certain climb at an event is, you will know what power you can sustain instead of trying to stick to a group that is just going to burn your matches.

 

BUT, it is only a guide and you should learn to listen to your body and push that little harder on a good day or back off on a day where your body doesn't feel good about it.

[DieselnDust]

The indoor/outdoor variation does complicates things somewhat.

 

I was hoping I could train indoors and use the same FTP and power zones to train and measure outside efforts. I speak under correction but FTP in essence is an approximation , wouldn't adjusting it upwards by a percentage make the outside FTP even less reliable?

 

One way around it is to have an FTP for inside and outside, not sure how practical that is for me though as I am still getting to grips with power based training as a concept, having to deal with two data sets is going to do my head in.

 

What does the rest of you Hubber's do when venturing outdoors with your indoor data?

 

 

I use the same zone indoors and outdoors. My indoor sessions have a higher RPE (rate of perceived Exertion) due to the factors mentioned above, i.e. difficulty cooling yourself and the need to constantly pedal. Your indoor session are  where you are making the biggest gains anyway as the application of load is much more consistent.

Hence I don't bother with two separate FTP numbers and zones. Just use the one set on the IDT and stick to a structured program. The results will come

[cadenceblur]

Indeed - all are saying roughly the same thing - focus on the indoor pain cave - and reap the rewards when you're outside. 

[shaper]

^^This 

 

You will struggle to do intervals and structured training outdoors.

 

However, where the outdoor power becomes useful is if you get power capabilities per timeframe from web based services like TodaysPlan or StagesLink where they will log your capabilities.

 

So you will know what the power reading you can sustain based on historical data for:

5s

10s

20s

30s

1min

...

all the way to 3 hours or more.

 

That way you can gauge an attack or an attempt to bridge a gap by sticking to a certain power level for a known time period. Or if you know roughly how long a certain climb at an event is, you will know what power you can sustain instead of trying to stick to a group that is just going to burn your matches.

 

BUT, it is only a guide and you should learn to listen to your body and push that little harder on a good day or back off on a day where your body doesn't feel good about it.

I record all mine on Golden Cheetah and know my 5s and 30s which are for staying with the attack or trying to get back on.  Also my 5 minute as most hills in Gauteng you will climb in 5 mins or less.