The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

Yeah humans and their distinctions on what is right and wrong are complex things.

I went vegan for just over 2 months before dropping down to vegetarian. Being vegan is just taking things way too far in terms of inconvenience. 

 

What amazed me the most about the time I was vegan was that I didnt have the urge to tell anyone about it, that must be the reason I couldnt keep it going

 

I know the farmers personally and the lifestyle that both the eggs and milk I consume come from. Those are happy *true* free range birds/animals.

 

That's good to hear, RB. What was the trigger for you to make the change? 

 

Regarding the milk and eggs, do you then eat vegan outside of the house (i.e. travelling, restaurants, over at family and friends, etc.)? 

[100Tours]

Every single person can make a difference in the world...but its entirely up to you if you want to make an effort and try...

 

 

Agreed, but the point was that veganism doesn't make the difference you're hoping it does.

[100Tours]

Another fun irony is the world reaction to the fires in the amazon.

 

Everybody is united in their sympathy for the animals suffering in the fires. Then they go and kill and eat animals.

 

My thoughts were mostly with the trees and the vast tracts of forest being destroyed. Is it not a bit of a stretch that you sympathise only with the animals and not the forest? 

Edited August 27, 2019 by 100Tours

[100Tours]

Tours, put your arguments in the human context and see how you view them. 'Are slaves by definition suffering...' If you reject those arguments, then you agree with veganism. Why? Because animals are just like us in all the ways that matter. They desire to be with their own kind. To have freedom of movement. To be free from pain. To have and raise their young. Our exploitation deprives them of those basic freedoms. 

 

For a long time people exploited slaves in the same way that we now exploit animals. We deprived them of basic freedoms and justice to serve our selfish needs (this goes beyond just the food system). 

 

And I disagree with your last point. Veganism does and will change the world. Perhaps not in the way that many people think and perhaps it will still take a considerable time, but it will.  

 

 

We should give them the vote. And equal wages too.

 

The argument that animals are people too is just silly.

Edited August 27, 2019 by 100Tours

[Red Robin]

I was vegetarian for a long time and its nice to see the variety of vegetarian food in restaurants and shops is so much better than before. it was pretty dire years ago in SA.

[Chris_]

Would like to hear some opinions: can capitalism help create a vegan world or are corporations, built on animal exploitation, simply and cynically cashing in on the vegan boom to bolster their bottom line? 

...

 

I think they're the same thing, one just comes before another.

 

If the market changes companies need to follow the trends to keep themselves viable. It’s a no-brainer to add vegan products in right now given the popularity. So maybe there’s a ... 95% don’t-care-but-will-produce-vegan-options-to-keep-feet-coming-in mentality, and 5% honestly vegan-principled business. In time maybe it moves to 80/20, 50/50 or whatever but the ‘movement’ needs to persist. I disagree with the pessimism of the article wrt meat burger eaters never being tempted by the vegan options. I think that’s how the lifestyle changes will be experimented with, learned about and potentially adopted and therefore continue to push the viability for legit vegan businesses to get a leg in, and further down the line change the status quo of animal disregard we’re currently living in. 

 

Capitalism/enterprise is about profit first. As we know that’s what structures and dictates the product. So if the profit no longer involves animal exploitation, that’s where businesses will take aim. If veganism popularity peters out and remains fringe, then that’s how general corporate mentality will remain. But if 1 person at a time makes different choices, the market has to respond.

[Eldron]

My thoughts were mostly with the trees and the vast tracts of forest being destroyed. Is it not a bit of a stretch that you sympathise only with the animals and not the forest? 

 

Nobody said anyone sympathised with only one or the other so no - not a stretch.

 

Life doesn't have to be binary - people have the ability to sympathise with both.

[Odinson]

We should give them the vote. And equal wages too.

 

The argument that animals are people too is just silly.

 

I get the sense you're being purposefully obtuse to get a reaction, but please don't twist my words. 

[Rocket-Boy]

That's good to hear, RB. What was the trigger for you to make the change? 

 

Regarding the milk and eggs, do you then eat vegan outside of the house (i.e. travelling, restaurants, over at family and friends, etc.)? 

There wasnt much of a trigger, we have been mostly vegetarian for the last few years now, we were eating meat around once every 10 days or so. My wife and I just decided to extend it to completely cutting out meat.

 

I havent really thought of the outside eating to be honest, I work from home and dont need to travel often for work so it hasnt been an issue yet. But I guess in those situations I would just stick to whatever vegetables are available.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

I think they're the same thing, one just comes before another.

 

If the market changes companies need to follow the trends to keep themselves viable. It’s a no-brainer to add vegan products in right now given the popularity. So maybe there’s a ... 95% don’t-care-but-will-produce-vegan-options-to-keep-feet-coming-in mentality, and 5% honestly vegan-principled business. In time maybe it moves to 80/20, 50/50 or whatever but the ‘movement’ needs to persist. I disagree with the pessimism of the article wrt meat burger eaters never being tempted by the vegan options. I think that’s how the lifestyle changes will be experimented with, learned about and potentially adopted and therefore continue to push the viability for legit vegan businesses to get a leg in, and further down the line change the status quo of animal disregard we’re currently living in. 

 

Capitalism/enterprise is about profit first. As we know that’s what structures and dictates the product. So if the profit no longer involves animal exploitation, that’s where businesses will take aim. If veganism popularity peters out and remains fringe, then that’s how general corporate mentality will remain. But if 1 person at a time makes different choices, the market has to respond.

 

Absolutely. In a fair few establishments, the vegan / veggie burger option is actually tastier than the meat option. I think some burger joints just think that they only have to cook beef and it'll taste good. Not the case. Got to prep it, spice it, baste it and so on in order to get it tasting lekkerrr. Same as with veg, but with veg you can't "get away" with it as easily if you don't spice it or think about the flavour combinations. 

[Eldron]

Absolutely. In a fair few establishments, the vegan / veggie burger option is actually tastier than the meat option. I think some burger joints just think that they only have to cook beef and it'll taste good. Not the case. Got to prep it, spice it, baste it and so on in order to get it tasting lekkerrr. Same as with veg, but with veg you can't "get away" with it as easily if you don't spice it or think about the flavour combinations. 

 

100% - we've found a massive quality difference between traditional places that start offering veggie options and stores that started as veggie friendly.

 

Meat is a little lazy - you already have a base taste and just need to enhance it.

Veggie you start with very little and have to spend time and effort to build layers of flavour.

 

I reckon cooking veggie food makes you a better chef!

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

100% - we've found a massive quality difference between traditional places that start offering veggie options and stores that started as veggie friendly.

 

Meat is a little lazy - you already have a base taste and just need to enhance it.

Veggie you start with very little and have to spend time and effort to build layers of flavour.

 

I reckon cooking veggie food makes you a better chef!

indeed. 

 

I love my veggies, and I love meat, too. My little one just eats what I give him, regardless of what it is, as long as it's tasty. 

[Chris_]

Another fun irony is the world reaction to the fires in the amazon.

 

Everybody is united in their sympathy for the animals suffering in the fires. Then they go and kill and eat animals.

 

Every news headline or article I've come across says exactly the same thing. Its like they're trying to omit the actual cause. 

 

- wow you can see the fires from space,

- lunatic President doesn't want or need help and this is business as usual,

- losing 1 football field a minute,

- the green lung.

 

Nobody has really discussed this actually happens every year (granted this years its bigger but thats seems almost moot), so maybe you should be #PickingYourNoseForTheAmazon a lot more often, and actually wake up to whats going on. Forests are being cleared and fields burnt for a reason which nobody is bringing up.

[Eldron]

Every news headline or article I've come across says exactly the same thing. Its like they're trying to omit the actual cause. 

 

- wow you can see the fires from space,

- lunatic President doesn't want or need help and this is business as usual,

- losing 1 football field a minute,

- the green lung.

 

Nobody has really discussed this actually happens every year (granted this years its bigger but thats seems almost moot), so maybe you should be #PickingYourNoseForTheAmazon a lot more often, and actually wake up to whats going on. Forests are being cleared and fields burnt for a reason which nobody is bringing up.

 

Agreed.

 

On the upside there is more awareness now which has led to G7 committing money and the public at large putting pressure on the lunatic president.

 

Progress versus pollution it a tough subject. Effectively first world countries knackered the planet to get to be first world countries. Now we're saying that 3rd world countries can't do the same.

 

It makes complete sense and is massively unfair all at the same time. Kinda like white people in SA (is it Friday yet????)

[Odinson]

Agreed.

 

On the upside there is more awareness now which has led to G7 committing money and the public at large putting pressure on the lunatic president.

 

Progress versus pollution it a tough subject. Effectively first world countries knackered the planet to get to be first world countries. Now we're saying that 3rd world countries can't do the same.

 

It makes complete sense and is massively unfair all at the same time. Kinda like white people in SA (is it Friday yet????)

 

And Trump didn't even bother to attend the meeting on the climate crisis and the Amazon fires: 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/26/donald-trump-skips-g7-talks-on-climate-crisis-and-amazon-fires

[Chris_]

Agreed.

 

On the upside there is more awareness now which has led to G7 committing money and the public at large putting pressure on the lunatic president.

 

Progress versus pollution it a tough subject. Effectively first world countries knackered the planet to get to be first world countries. Now we're saying that 3rd world countries can't do the same.

 

It makes complete sense and is massively unfair all at the same time. Kinda like white people in SA (is it Friday yet????)

 

(Cast your eyes to the latest employment equity stats in SA and comments on further  transformation. But I'm saving that juicy bomb for the hub hoards till I'm really bored... )