The Veganism Thread

[DJR]

Dammit. Fell to my own rule about fact checking. Thanks for the info, D. 

I don't mind convicting my own grandmother if she killed the wolf, but I want real facts first from those crying wolf! 

Edited October 5, 2019 by DJR

[Odinson]

I have looked around a bit on the internet and there seems to be no proof at all that anyone shot and killed the wolf. Hunters or otherwise. The best seems to be that animal rights and conservation groups have concluded that because it was in an area where people hunt wild boar, she must have been killed by a hunter.

 

That may well be, but it is only one of many a plausible explanation. Animals often die when giving birth or shortly afterwards from all manners of complications. Just to name one very likely alternative reason for her disappearance. Others would include getting run over by a vehicle. Getting poisoned unintentionally by humans trying to kill rats. Also, a grown wild boar male is more than capable of killing a single wolf.

 

Show me the proof and I'll be the first to condemn whoever the culprit is, but to single out "hunters" without proof, does not help at all. Having a wolf population is something I would imagine hunters to be very much in favour of because it will improve the ecology and the health of the system, all of which will be for their benefit also.

 

The effect of reintroducing wolves in Yellowstone is seen as a milestone. See link below.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

All signs point to hunters. Hunters were found in the protected area, but not with her though. She’s been missing since May. If it was a boar or other ‘natural’ occurrence, she would’ve been found.

 

“Wolvin Naya is 'kwaadwillig omgebracht'

Inmiddels stelt de Cel Natuurinspectie van het Vlaamse Agentschap Natuur en Bos dat de wolvin kwaadwillig is omgebracht. Ze concludeert dat personen opzettelijk het nestelgebied van de wolvin zijn binnengedrongen om daar gericht en opzettelijk de wolvin met haar welpen in het nest te gaan zoeken en ze daar te doden. In het gebied zijn mensen aangehouden die verboden handelingen uitvoerden. Zo is een ingerichte onreglementaire voerplaats voor wilde zwijnen gevonden, waarlangs een uit staaldraad vervaardigde strop opgesteld hing. Ook werd een rondrijdende jeep opgemerkt binnen een ontoegankelijke zone met daarin twee jagers die elk een geladen en schietklaar jachtgeweer binnen handbereik naast zich hadden.

 

De Zoogdiervereniging hoopt dat de berichtgeving over wolvin ‘Naya’ en haar welpen voorbarig is, maar houdt terdege rekening met het feit dat deze wolven daadwerkelijk zijn gestroopt. Daarmee zou de eerste succesvolle voortplanting van wolven in België na decennia van afwezigheid wegens een misdrijf zijn mislukt. Gezien de groei van de wolvenpopulatie in Duitsland, Frankrijk en natuurlijk ook Nederland, is het slechts een kwestie van tijd totdat een nieuwe wolvin zich vestigt bij onze zuideburen”

 

https://www.naturetoday.com/intl/nl/nature-reports/message/?msg=25533

[DJR]

All signs point to hunters. Hunters were found in the protected area, but not with her though. She’s been missing since May. If it was a boar or other ‘natural’ occurrence, she would’ve been found.

 

“Wolvin Naya is 'kwaadwillig omgebracht'

Inmiddels stelt de Cel Natuurinspectie van het Vlaamse Agentschap Natuur en Bos dat de wolvin kwaadwillig is omgebracht. Ze concludeert dat personen opzettelijk het nestelgebied van de wolvin zijn binnengedrongen om daar gericht en opzettelijk de wolvin met haar welpen in het nest te gaan zoeken en ze daar te doden. In het gebied zijn mensen aangehouden die verboden handelingen uitvoerden. Zo is een ingerichte onreglementaire voerplaats voor wilde zwijnen gevonden, waarlangs een uit staaldraad vervaardigde strop opgesteld hing. Ook werd een rondrijdende jeep opgemerkt binnen een ontoegankelijke zone met daarin twee jagers die elk een geladen en schietklaar jachtgeweer binnen handbereik naast zich hadden.

 

De Zoogdiervereniging hoopt dat de berichtgeving over wolvin ‘Naya’ en haar welpen voorbarig is, maar houdt terdege rekening met het feit dat deze wolven daadwerkelijk zijn gestroopt. Daarmee zou de eerste succesvolle voortplanting van wolven in België na decennia van afwezigheid wegens een misdrijf zijn mislukt. Gezien de groei van de wolvenpopulatie in Duitsland, Frankrijk en natuurlijk ook Nederland, is het slechts een kwestie van tijd totdat een nieuwe wolvin zich vestigt bij onze zuideburen”

 

https://www.naturetoday.com/intl/nl/nature-reports/message/?msg=25533

Thank you for the post and the reply Odinson. I agree with the possibly "gestroopt". Poached, like a rhino. So, criminals transgressing in a protected area. Hopefully the police will find the solid evidence and the culprits.

[Wayne Potgieter]

And what have the smart people pondered about the billions of animals that are now not going to be eaten?

The sole value will be one of an environmental pollutant!

Shall we slaughter them to eliminate the formidable environmental impact they cause or would it be more humane to let them stave to death?

 

It doesnt really work that way. Your post is an "all or nothing" approach.

 

It is unreasonable to assume that in one instant every person on the planet will stop eating meat. It will be a gradual process that takes place over time. The laws of supply and demand indicate that less and less animals will be born to supply the lessening demand. 

 

Gradually, the farmers will transform their land from animal agriculture to plants. Those growing plants for animal feed will switch to human food.

 

Again, the laws of supply and demand will take over.

 

The issue is changing the demand. As more people take up a plant based diet, or even a meat reduced diet (they are not the same thing) the market will adapt. 

[Eldron]

It doesnt really work that way. Your post is an "all or nothing" approach.

 

It is unreasonable to assume that in one instant every person on the planet will stop eating meat. It will be a gradual process that takes place over time. The laws of supply and demand indicate that less and less animals will be born to supply the lessening demand.

 

Gradually, the farmers will transform their land from animal agriculture to plants. Those growing plants for animal feed will switch to human food.

 

Again, the laws of supply and demand will take over.

 

The issue is changing the demand. As more people take up a plant based diet, or even a meat reduced diet (they are not the same thing) the market will adapt.

Exactly this.

 

Meat consumption is around 4-5 times higher than the 1960s. If we got back to that level it would be better for both planet and population.

 

It's one small step in taking responsibility for our planet and reversing the damage we've caused.

[SwissVan]

not sure where i suggested that

  

 

If we ate all the cows that are currently on the planet ( as per normal) but didnt make new ones, then they would slowly decrease in number with no additional suffering. as they reduce we could use their old pastures to grow crops and thus not have to destroy any more forrests. 

 

 

[Eldron]

I saw this funny little jab at carnivores on Facebook...

 

 

Clean the oceans to save the fish.

 

Yay we saved the fish.

 

Let's eat them.

[Wayne Potgieter]

I saw this funny little jab at carnivores on Facebook...

 

 

Clean the oceans to save the fish.

 

Yay we saved the fish.

 

Let's eat them.

I had a friend put on a picture of an Albert Einstein quote about “if a man aspires to a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals”. Not sure if it’s an actual quote. The part of the story that was bewildering was her very next post was of homemade bacon wrapped jalapeños on the braai.

 

Sort of ironic.

[Eldron]

I had a friend put on a picture of an Albert Einstein quote about “if a man aspires to a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals”. Not sure if it’s an actual quote. The part of the story that was bewildering was her very next post was of homemade bacon wrapped jalapeños on the braai.

 

Sort of ironic.

 

Ahh yes there is a little hypocrite in all of us...

[Mudsimus]

I saw this funny little jab at carnivores on Facebook...

 

 

Clean the oceans to save the fish.

 

Yay we saved the fish.

 

Let's eat them.

Duh. If we don't save the fish we cant eat them.

[DJR]

What about these guys?

 

[WrightJnr]

I had a friend put on a picture of an Albert Einstein quote about “if a man aspires to a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals”. Not sure if it’s an actual quote. The part of the story that was bewildering was her very next post was of homemade bacon wrapped jalapeños on the braai.

 

Sort of ironic.

I accept your POV. However mine is ...

 

If the pig was raised on a good traditional farm and then slaughtered in the correct manner I don’t see anything wrong with your friends posts.

[Eldron]

Duh. If we don't save the fish we cant eat them.

Can't fault that logic!

[Eldron]

I accept your POV. However mine is ...

 

If the pig was raised on a good traditional farm and then slaughtered in the correct manner I don’t see anything wrong with your friends posts.

To be fair death is a pretty severe injury.

[Chris_]

I accept your POV. However mine is ...

 

If the pig was raised on a good traditional farm and then slaughtered in the correct manner I don’t see anything wrong with your friends posts.

 

Everyone has their own good traditional farm. And this is pretty grim.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-06/china-is-breeding-giant-pigs-the-size-of-polar-bears

[Mojoman]

Everyone has their own good traditional farm. And this is pretty grim.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-06/china-is-breeding-giant-pigs-the-size-of-polar-bears

I think I read somewhere the Chinese are the worlds biggest consumers of pork?

Biggest decimating nation on earth as well in my opinion...