Suikerbossie traffic lights & general road safety

[splat]

I think the City of Cape Town's obsession with traffic lights is at least partially at fault here. In many places they could easily be replaced with traffic roundabouts which are proven to be much more efficient and, if built correctly, safer too.

 

Capetonians don't do very well with traffic circles either.

Just when you think you have it right, you get to the Claremont Circle   

[Meezo]

I think the City of Cape Town's obsession with traffic lights is at least partially at fault here. In many places they could easily be replaced with traffic roundabouts which are proven to be much more efficient and, if built correctly, safer too.

 

so here's something that's been freaking me out, and i would like some clarity, what is the ruling on Traffic Circles, as to me my understanding is that its like a 4way FIFO, most of drivers in Cape Town seems to think that a certain lane going into the circle has right of way, in this case it creates more traffic than any thing else, i was hoping to speak to the Traffic Dept. i don't recall this from my Learners license or Drivers

[Meezo]

Capetonians don't do very well with traffic circles either.

Just when you think you have it right, you get to the Claremont Circle   

haha, as i was typing this,

 

i was at tokai on Saturday and Sunday, on both days i had a seriously upset driver because he thought he had right of way, i didn't care and was willing to risk my car being smashed by someone who doesn't know the rules, or don't i know the rules?

[MintSauce]

haha, as i was typing this,

 

i was at tokai on Saturday and Sunday, on both days i had a seriously upset driver because he thought he had right of way, i didn't care and was willing to risk my car being smashed by someone who doesn't know the rules, or don't i know the rules?

 

Sorry to have to tell you, the general rule is that the vehicle approaching from the right has right of way. So, if you get to the circle a vehicle in the circle or entering from your right, has the right of way

 

Would anyone like a lesson on dual lane circles and what the rules are around those? From my experience it appears people are generally lacking in knowledge on that subject as well

 

 

Edit: Claremont circle mentioned earlier is the exception. Don't know what mastermind decided it should be different. I can imagine it causes much confusion.

[J∆kk∆ls]

Sorry to have to tell you, the general rule is that the vehicle approaching from the right has right of way. So, if you get to the circle a vehicle in the circle or entering from your right, has the right of way

 

Would anyone like a lesson on dual lane circles and what the rules are around those? From my experience it appears people are generally lacking in knowledge on that subject as well

 

 

Edit: Claremont circle mentioned earlier is the exception. Don't know what mastermind decided it should be different. I can imagine it causes much confusion.

You want to see knobs driving just check out the traffic circle by McDonald's in Greenpoint. 

[Meezo]

Sorry to have to tell you, the general rule is that the vehicle approaching from the right has right of way. So, if you get to the circle a vehicle in the circle or entering from your right, has the right of way

 

Would anyone like a lesson on dual lane circles and what the rules are around those? From my experience it appears people are generally lacking in knowledge on that subject as well

 

 

Edit: Claremont circle mentioned earlier is the exception. Don't know what mastermind decided it should be different. I can imagine it causes much confusion.

Don't be sorry i wasn't sure, thanks for clearing that up. But now which is the right side of the circle ????

[DieselnDust]

Don't be sorry i wasn't sure, thanks for clearing that up. But now which is the right side of the circle

If you looking over your right shoulder then its too your right and has right of way.

The yield sign does also complicate it a bit because if the traffic is heavy vehicles should yield before proceeding into the circle.

In Cape Town the traffic circle urban rule is "they with the most speed gets the right of way"

[Butterbean]

Sorry to have to tell you, the general rule is that the vehicle approaching from the right has right of way. So, if you get to the circle a vehicle in the circle or entering from your right, has the right of way

 

Would anyone like a lesson on dual lane circles and what the rules are around those? From my experience it appears people are generally lacking in knowledge on that subject as well

 

 

Edit: Claremont circle mentioned earlier is the exception. Don't know what mastermind decided it should be different. I can imagine it causes much confusion.

 

False. Traffic circles have different rules to roundabouts, and if youre unsure, there will be the correct signage to guide you.

 

https://www.arrivealive.mobi/driving-around-traffic-circle-roundabout

 

On an aside, I was going to refrain from commenting on this out of respect for the riders health condition, but I've posted a number of times on the forum of how idiotic cyclists are for flaunting red light rules on the assumption that it affects no one.

 

This incident is case in point. Someone rode outside of the zone labelled responsible, and whether this was due to lack of skill, lack of sense, or a godlike attitude of self importance, he has now done the following:

 

Put himself through serious trauma

Put his family through serious trauma

Put the driver of a vehicle, who was following road rules well, through significant trauma

Cost the driver time, money, and energy to repair said vehicle, even though insurance will be at play its still a stressful and costly exercise

Ruined reputation and image of cyclists around and given the car manne more ammunition to give the rest of us less space, respect, and tolerance.

 

I'm really quite sorry for the situation, but I do hope the cycling community will wake up to the fact that we can no longer be selfish, have the self righteous approach that we know better and can therefore flaunt traffic rules. You're just being a ****.

[andreas17777]

For the following two replies, please keep in mind I've never cycled in Cape Town and am not familiar with the specific intersection (in fact, I thought this post was about Suikerbosrand and that there was a traffic light I'm unaware of!):

I've had similar experiences in Germiston where I cycled speed limit or less, started braking and only ended up skidding 1/3rd into the intersection (nicely bedded ultegra brakes, conti gp400 s2).

Your claim is nothing more than a personal opinion at this point (like my counter claim), but if you can support it with evidence or relevant calculations, that would be very interesting.

 

I like the idea, but practically feasible? On paper (where paper also implies people are law abiding citizens, also ironic as it wouldv'e prevented this incident entirely) that would be a great idea, but do you not think this will only allow for more vehicles rushing over on orange? Like mentioned, I don't know what traffic is like in CT, but in jhb, a longer orange just means more cars passing before the last 2-4 passing through red.

My opinion is based on if a traffic light takes 3 seconds to change from yellow to red, and you are travelling at 70km/h (19,4m/s) then you have at least 60 meters to brake before you reach the lights( or 40m if your reaction is a bit longer) enough time to slow down to a safer speed where you can react if a car comes across the road.

[Tim Brink]

Sorry to have to tell you, the general rule is that the vehicle approaching from the right has right of way. So, if you get to the circle a vehicle in the circle or entering from your right, has the right of way

 

Would anyone like a lesson on dual lane circles and what the rules are around those? From my experience it appears people are generally lacking in knowledge on that subject as well

 

 

Edit: Claremont circle mentioned earlier is the exception. Don't know what mastermind decided it should be different. I can imagine it causes much confusion.

Unless it is a mini-circle, which is essentially a four-way stop...

 

Just to confuse matters.

 

https://www.circles.org.za

 

 

 

Should we tell them about the Claremont debacle?

[Dirkitech]

My opinion is based on if a traffic light takes 3 seconds to change from yellow to red, and you are travelling at 70km/h (19,4m/s) then you have at least 60 meters to brake before you reach the lights( or 40m if your reaction is a bit longer) enough time to slow down to a safer speed where you can react if a car comes across the road.

Seeing the numbers I want to agree with you and logically it sounds like it would work, but it doesn't align with the time I skidded a bit into an intersection. I checked, from where I remember braking was about 75-78m ahead of the stopping line. With the mtb 40m would've been fine, but with the road bike, 70m wasn't enough.

 

Am I perhaps misunderstanding you - do you just mean slow down to a speed one can respond to more acutely, or do you mean come to a dead stop? Dead stop doesn't sound right to me, but while slowing down/skidding is favourable, controlling a bike braking from speed can be disastrous too.

[andreas17777]

Seeing the numbers I want to agree with you and logically it sounds like it would work, but it doesn't align with the time I skidded a bit into an intersection. I checked, from where I remember braking was about 75-78m ahead of the stopping line. With the mtb 40m would've been fine, but with the road bike, 70m wasn't enough.

 

Am I perhaps misunderstanding you - do you just mean slow down to a speed one can respond to more acutely, or do you mean come to a dead stop? Dead stop doesn't sound right to me, but while slowing down/skidding is favourable, controlling a bike braking from speed can be disastrous too.

All i'm saying is some people are able to stop from that distance and some are not, at least try.

[porqui]

All i'm saying is some people are able to stop from that distance and some are not, at least try.

 

Or not !!

 

(Absolutely try yes !!)

[Disylizzy]

My opinion is based on if a traffic light takes 3 seconds to change from yellow to red, and you are travelling at 70km/h (19,4m/s) then you have at least 60 meters to brake before you reach the lights( or 40m if your reaction is a bit longer) enough time to slow down to a safer speed where you can react if a car comes across the road.

 

So this is where that all important transportation engineering I've been touting comes in to play.

 

The formula/concept is stopping sight distance.  When you see an obstacle, you don't immediately stop, you see the obstacle, you need to comprehend it, and then only will you start applying brakes.

 

The average reaction time used is 2.5 seconds - some people are obviously faster.  So for a car travelling at 70km/hr, the distance is 104m

 

https://comparativegeometrics.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/basic-formula-for-stopping-sight-distance-2/

[Shebeen]

Capetonians don't do very well with traffic circles either.

Just when you think you have it right, you get to the Claremont Circle   

 

claremont one is an exception, hence why it has that yellow diamond sign to yield to left.

 

 

as for dual lane traffic circles, they are brilliant, when done correctly

 

kinda obvious when you see this sign.

 

BUT where it all falls down is when the traffic authority puts a double lane circle with only one exit lane. the geniuses got this one right at sunrise circle/ndabeni. confusion guaranteed by design.

[Dirkitech]

All i'm saying is some people are able to stop from that distance and some are not, at least try.

It is a given that some people will stop faster than others, especially since differing equipment and rider weight, but no. You made a broad based statement saying "you have enough time to brake when the robot turns yellow" and I disagree with that statement. This isn't relating enough to the topic at hand so I'll be leaving it there.

 

I don't disagree for a second to not at least try, unless it is otherwise safer and preferably within the law not to. If trying is the difference between slamming into something through a red robot at 70kmh and slowing down enough to put the bike down for some hot buns, then there must be tried!