Grease_Monkey Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 But you wouldn't have the same geo around a 650b and 29 specific bike. That's the whole point. Basically reinventing the wheel, or around the wheel. Looking at some 29er bikes with 65' HA and 77' seat tube angles. The geometry of a 29er fun bike will not be the same as a 650b. For that reason changing wheels will give you a different feeling, but a properly designed bike should tick the right characteristics and the same/similar characteristics between wheelsizes, based on the proposed use of said bikeAfter I posted I knew someone would reply with exactly what you did, and you're right. My sentiment is more around that there is a place for both sizes. On a play bike I will choose 27.5, on anything else 29. That's not to say 29 isnt fun, my 29" Following is probably one of the most fun bikes out there. My preference for a play bike is just 27.5 - nothing more or less to it that preference. And I think there are still and will still be many with that sentiment for a while, so the industry will keep them around.
Headshot Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 I genuinely love my small wheeled HT. Maybe I would love it as much if it was a 29er but I have my doubts. Part of its charm is the quick steering and light but very strong wheels. I prefer the feel of the smaller wheels to my 27.5 with 2,6 tyres. Some of it is geo and weight related. With a lighter build eg carbon parts and some better gearing it could be even more of an all rounder. The only area I feel it falls down is on very rough climbs where a bigger wheel would probably roll more easily. These are the kind of climbs where people usually push their bikes anyway.
Jewbacca Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 After I posted I knew someone would reply with exactly what you did, and you're right. My sentiment is more around that there is a place for both sizes. On a play bike I will choose 27.5, on anything else 29. That's not to say 29 isnt fun, my 29" Following is probably one of the most fun bikes out there. My preference for a play bike is just 27.5 - nothing more or less to it that preference. And I think there are still and will still be many with that sentiment for a while, so the industry will keep them around.(disclaimer, I am NOT picking on you nor do I feel that 650b bikes should or will be phased out but...) Is that not just because you already have one? If they can dial a 29er geometry to be both more efficient AND just as fun, wouldn't it make sense to blank the canvass and invest in making it even better? Having a million standards is unnecessary if they can get one absolutely dialled... Racing bikes in 29er guise already exist and are (by the replies in this thread) irrefutably the 'best'. As the 'Fun' aspect of 29ers is researched and perfected, the geometry tweaked to mimic the feel and handling of current 'fun' bikes would it not do us well to have the main players focus on one standard? Imagine the tires, rims, carbon moulds they could create if they focussed on one thing instead of spread their time/money/effort over 4 different standards? It's all hypothetical. If you take emotion out of it and think about blanking the canvas for the greater good.... If you have one wheel size which can be as good at everything would you take it? I would gladly see the bike industry 'stand still' on the wheel size debate for a while and concentrate on getting 'as good' products and components out cheaper to the consumers.
Fruity Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 I borrowed a mates 650b a few years ago for an event, when I was without a bike for a while. When I eventually got myself another mtb, another 29er, I felt more at home on the 29er.
DieselnDust Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 (disclaimer, I am NOT picking on you nor do I feel that 650b bikes should or will be phased out but...) Is that not just because you already have one? If they can dial a 29er geometry to be both more efficient AND just as fun, wouldn't it make sense to blank the canvass and invest in making it even better? Having a million standards is unnecessary if they can get one absolutely dialled... Racing bikes in 29er guise already exist and are (by the replies in this thread) irrefutably the 'best'. As the 'Fun' aspect of 29ers is researched and perfected, the geometry tweaked to mimic the feel and handling of current 'fun' bikes would it not do us well to have the main players focus on one standard? Imagine the tires, rims, carbon moulds they could create if they focussed on one thing instead of spread their time/money/effort over 4 different standards? It's all hypothetical. If you take emotion out of it and think about blanking the canvas for the greater good.... If you have one wheel size which can be as good at everything would you take it? I would gladly see the bike industry 'stand still' on the wheel size debate for a while and concentrate on getting 'as good' products and components out cheaper to the consumers. Who says 29ers are the best race bikes? Emily batty tried one and didn't along with it. She's been back on 650b for two seasons and getting better and faster. Pivot Cycles 429SL is available in 650b and 29er. very difficult to tell them apart other than the 650b just works better for shorter riders.Soak up the geometry hype as long as you can. At the end of the day a bike is the sum of all its parts. I've seen a short lady on a 650b Scalpel converted to 29er because she wanted the big wheels.One of the Dormakaba riders I think. Travel limited to 80mm as a result. In XS sizes its very difficult to build a nimble bike that is also longer travel with 29inch wheels. The front end has to get longer and often that's too long for riders under 1.65m.
sias Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Who says 29ers are the best race bikes? Emily batty tried one and didn't along with it. She's been back on 650b for two seasons and getting better and faster.Batty is no higher than my knee-caps, so maybe a 650B fits better. What wheelsize does the world champ ride? And the worldcup champ? The Olympic champ? And of course the most important - The Epic champ?
Jewbacca Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Who says 29ers are the best race bikes? Emily batty tried one and didn't along with it. She's been back on 650b for two seasons and getting better and faster. Pivot Cycles 429SL is available in 650b and 29er. very difficult to tell them apart other than the 650b just works better for shorter riders.Soak up the geometry hype as long as you can. At the end of the day a bike is the sum of all its parts. I've seen a short lady on a 650b Scalpel converted to 29er because she wanted the big wheels.One of the Dormakaba riders I think. Travel limited to 80mm as a result. In XS sizes its very difficult to build a nimble bike that is also longer travel with 29inch wheels. The front end has to get longer and often that's too long for riders under 1.65m.I think most people here and most 'tests' showed that for racing it was the most efficient? There will always be exceptions to 'the rule'. They build TT bikes with 650 wheels for shorter/female riders too. Where it necessitates fit and practicality, awesome. BUT that quip was made earlier and was rubbished. Your argument is basically supporting that joke. By the end of the thread 650b will be for women and kids....... If you read my post and don't just take a snippet from it and create a new argument around that for the sake of it, you will see that I don't think they should get rid of 650b wheels.
Hairy Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 just remember you can choose your friends, not your family ... so ditch the ex. golfer Lol, all of that is true.Friend, ex Golfer, after years of dissing him about golf not being a sport etc etc and that he should rather take up mountain biking...and guess what...he goes and buys a S-works epic, and now he's going to ride the epic and all the other suffer fests, and is the epitome of a mountain biker now.
Grease_Monkey Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 (disclaimer, I am NOT picking on you nor do I feel that 650b bikes should or will be phased out but...) Is that not just because you already have one? If they can dial a 29er geometry to be both more efficient AND just as fun, wouldn't it make sense to blank the canvass and invest in making it even better? Having a million standards is unnecessary if they can get one absolutely dialled... Racing bikes in 29er guise already exist and are (by the replies in this thread) irrefutably the 'best'. As the 'Fun' aspect of 29ers is researched and perfected, the geometry tweaked to mimic the feel and handling of current 'fun' bikes would it not do us well to have the main players focus on one standard? Imagine the tires, rims, carbon moulds they could create if they focussed on one thing instead of spread their time/money/effort over 4 different standards? It's all hypothetical. If you take emotion out of it and think about blanking the canvas for the greater good.... If you have one wheel size which can be as good at everything would you take it? I would gladly see the bike industry 'stand still' on the wheel size debate for a while and concentrate on getting 'as good' products and components out cheaper to the consumers.Haha no offense taken... Actually both my bikes are 29ers. Both very fun, both efficient, both fast. So I am about the furthest thing away from a 27.5" die hard fan, I love 29ers. But, when I do swop out the 29" wheels on my hardtail for 27.5" wheels the bike becomes alot more lively and fun. The same can be saod for my old 26" street/jump bike. Now don't get me wrong, I know geo can be tweaked to make 29ers just as fun on the trail, but when it comes down to "playing" - ie: sessioning jumps, riding down stairs, trying to hop up curbs/ledges, endoing, etc etc smaller wheels are just better - no geo will change that. For 99.9% of riding I will take a 29er - that's why I have 2 in the garage with just an extra 27.5 wheelset I use ocassionaly. There are just many people out there who spend alot of time "playing" and for them a 27.5 makes sense. All of the above obviously points to a very niche type of riding, which is maybe where 27.5 will settle. I for one will be buying only 29ers for XC, trail, enduro, etc - but I do think there is room for 27.5 as well, and I don't think that 2 different wheelsizes holds back the industry or development of tech at all.
Headshot Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Batty is no higher than my knee-caps, so maybe a 650B fits better. What wheelsize does the world champ ride? And the worldcup champ? The Olympic champ? And of course the most important - The Epic champ?His point is that the wheel size, supposedly inferior for racing XC, is actually working well for her. If bike fit is so important then most of the women should be on 650B bikes surely? Or is it a case that its a host of factors and wheel size is just one?
Steven Knoetze (sk27) Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Pretty sure my 27.5 x 2.5 @ 2bar pressure is basically a 29er.............
DieselnDust Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Pretty sure my 27.5 x 2.5 @ 2bar pressure is basically a 29er.............Even at 2.35 there isn't much difference
Grease_Monkey Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Pretty sure my 27.5 x 2.5 @ 2bar pressure is basically a 29er.............No man guys, even my 27.5x2.8 wheels sit considerably lower than my 29x2.35 wheelset when next to each other...
Hairy Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 That is like saying your 650b with a 1.95" tyre is the same as a 26'er with a 2.5" tyre .... compare tyres fairly with respect to their widths or else your point is moot. Pretty sure my 27.5 x 2.5 @ 2bar pressure is basically a 29er............. Even at 2.35 there isn't much difference
DieselnDust Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 less than a cm in diameter.It just changes your gearing slightly but roll over feels the same.In fact bikes with longer front centre make roll over easier. This I have noticed
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