cvancoillie Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 I am not talking about at the point of delivery. I am talking about a situation where a medical specialist has given a diagnosis early on in the pregnancy that carrying a child to full term would very likely kill a mother. Ireland used to have very strict abortion laws, but even they allowed abortion where pregnancy endangered a woman's life. Why are you arguing a situation that does not exist?
Stretch Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 Ireland used to have very strict abortion laws, but even they allowed abortion where pregnancy endangered a woman's life. Why are you arguing a situation that does not exist?Huh.. I'm arguing the facts around abortion being legal Vs illegal in a country. Why this is so close to me is because... Yes... We went through this whole thing in may last year where we had the referendum here in Ireland to make it legal. Before May it was illegal outright. The risk to the life of the mother required so many hurdles that it was almost impossible to enforce. There was a case where a women died before she had a complicated miscarriage resulting in her bleeding internally and the doctors could not give her tablets to assist with the miscarriage which would have assisted with the internal bleed.
IceCreamMan Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 My concern is that the foetus is a 50 50 thing yet the man has no say either way. This is not acceptable in this modern egalitarian world. Pro lifer here. Don’t go murdering ppl then claim innocence. Always astounded by the vegan pro choice brigade. The mind boggles.
Robbie Stewart Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 And this is the point I'm trying to get across. It's not really an abortion issue.. Its a choice issue. In this whole discussion I have not once given you my view on abortion because it's not relevant to the discussion. What I have done is given you my view on the legality of abortion and as I've clearly stated I am all in favour of a government that affords an individual to make their own choice in that matter.I don't agree with you in regards to giving a woman a "choice" whether to abort or not. Unless she is in a medical emergency state, where not aborting would kill her, aborting for any other reason amounts to killing a human being. There is no mitigating circumstance to that in my view.
Stretch Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 I don't agree with you in regards to giving a woman a "choice" whether to abort or not. Unless she is in a medical emergency state, where not aborting would kill her, aborting for any other reason amounts to killing a human being. There is no mitigating circumstance to that in my view.You're missing the point... It's legal Vs illegal. If illegal there is no choice if it's a medical emergency and what constitutes a medical emergency is too grey. That has been proven
Stretch Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 My concern is that the foetus is a 50 50 thing yet the man has no say either way. This is not acceptable in this modern egalitarian world. Pro lifer here. Don’t go murdering ppl then claim innocence. Always astounded by the vegan pro choice brigade. The mind boggles.If it's deemed illegal then neither man nor woman has a say. No one has a say except a bunch of politicians.
cvancoillie Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 Huh.. I'm arguing the facts around abortion being legal Vs illegal in a country. Why this is so close to me is because... Yes... We went through this whole thing in may last year where we had the referendum here in Ireland to make it legal. Before May it was illegal outright. The risk to the life of the mother required so many hurdles that it was almost impossible to enforce. There was a case where a women died before she had a complicated miscarriage resulting in her bleeding internally and the doctors could not give her tablets to assist with the miscarriage which would have assisted with the internal bleed.It has always been legal where the life of the mother was in danger. Why were the "hurdles" not just addressed?
Stretch Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 It has always been legal where the life of the mother was in danger. Why were the "hurdles" not just addressed?You needed approval from three specialists before you could go ahead. Presiding Medical doctor, gynaecologist and one other I can't remember. Further to that the definition of "in danger" is based upon interpretation. In the example I quoted the obvious medical treatment would have been the tablets to induce a miscarriage on the lady who had already had a miscarriage. They didn't deem her life in danger so they didn't go ahead with contacting the the specialists to do that.... Yet she died a few days later due to the complications from her miscarriage
Red Robin Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 @ Stretch. Sort of off the topic. Do the abortion laws in Ireland and Northern Ireland now differ since the referendum? I always presumed Northern Ireland fell under UK Law but reading your link it seems not so with regard to abortion ?
Stretch Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 @ Stretch. Sort of off the topic. Do the abortion laws in Ireland and Northern Ireland now differ since the referendum? I always presumed Northern Ireland fell under UK Law but reading your link it seems not so with regard to abortion ?Still illegal in northern Ireland
fabes Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 You needed approval from three specialists before you could go ahead. Presiding Medical doctor, gynaecologist and one other I can't remember. Further to that the definition of "in danger" is based upon interpretation. In the example I quoted the obvious medical treatment would have been the tablets to induce a miscarriage on the lady who had already had a miscarriage. They didn't deem her life in danger so they didn't go ahead with contacting the the specialists to do that.... Yet she died a few days later due to the complications from her miscarriageyou are so far off the mark. Going from pro choice to backing your argument up with medical complications. 95% of abortions are not medical emergencies. Most would agree that if an abortion saves a mothers life it should be legal. Giving a “choice” to a mother that didn’t use her right to contraception is another story.
Stretch Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 you are so far off the mark. Going from pro choice to backing your argument up with medical complications. 95% of abortions are not medical emergencies. Most would agree that if an abortion saves a mothers life it should be legal. Giving a “choice” to a mother that didn’t use her right to contraception is another story.Fabes... You are so off the mark. Ireland had that... Abortion only to save a mother's life.. It still didn't work... What's your point? You can't have choice with exceptions.. It's either black or white Secondly.. You, like a few others on this thread are only focussing on people having abortions because a pregnancy didn't suit them at that time.... That's not the only reason why people need to terminate... There are many valid reasons where the mother's life is not in danger... But a termination is medically the best option Thirdly.. That person where the pregnancy didn't suit their lifestyle... They are going to terminate regardless.. Statistics support this. Would you prefer they did if safely and with the support of loved ones.. Or alone in another country amongst people they don't know?.. Or god forbid.. At an illegal back alley abortion clinic. Ironically South Africa has some of the best statistics around abortion being legal Vs illegal. I bet your have never ever investigated what those statistics show.
Allrounder Posted March 18, 2019 Posted March 18, 2019 If you don't want to become pregnant, don't have intercourse. Problem solved.
Uni Posted March 18, 2019 Posted March 18, 2019 If you don't want to become pregnant, don't have intercourse. Problem solved. Except sex isin't just for procreation is it. Know this. Don't assume it's a willy nilly decision for any woman, no matter the reason she decides to abort. It's physically and emotionally traumatic.
Thor Buttox Posted March 18, 2019 Posted March 18, 2019 Except sex isin't just for procreation is it. Know this. Don't assume it's a willy nilly decision for any woman, no matter the reason she decides to abort. It's physically and emotionally traumatic.Uni, you don't have any of the requirements for contributing to this thread. Why don't you just let the nice men decide what is best for you, and don't you worry your pretty, little head about it? You know when you're going to be taken care of when there is no discern able difference between those stating their argument and those taking the piss ^^^^^
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