947 Ride Joburg

[Bike Dewing]

21 hours ago, TheoG said:

If you willing can I call on you for some advice if/when needed?  I am very familiar to train for running marathons/ultras, but feels like I'm making a lot of mistakes with the cycling .... 🙈

I would also be interested to know the training differences between the two.. why do you say you are making mistakes with cycling training.?

I have a young German shepherd that I need to start running soon(otherwise I’m going to start loosing furniture) and would like to know if a 5/10km run every other day would benefit or negatively affect my cycling training..🤔

[TheoG]

4 minutes ago, Michael Dewing said:

I would also be interested to know the training differences between the two.. why do you say you are making mistakes with cycling training.?

I have a young German shepherd that I need to start running soon(otherwise I’m going to start loosing furniture) and would like to know if a 5/10km run every other day would benefit or negatively affect my cycling training..🤔

Mainly because with the running I could train and get to state where I could run a marathon (42.2) and even the odd ultra (up to 50km) without getting cramps.

With the cycling, almost every time I go over about 3 hours of riding, I'm almost guaranteed to cramp.

Running will benefit your general fitness and as a result cycling also but ultimately if you want to cycle better, you need to cycle.  I'm sure @Frosty can you much better advice though .... 😊.

[Vetplant]

3 minutes ago, TheoG said:

Mainly because with the running I could train and get to state where I could run a marathon (42.2) and even the odd ultra (up to 50km) without getting cramps.

With the cycling, almost every time I go over about 3 hours of riding, I'm almost guaranteed to cramp.

Running will benefit your general fitness and as a result cycling also but ultimately if you want to cycle better, you need to cycle.  I'm sure @Frosty can you much better advice though .... 😊.

Just pop a CrampEase every 30minutes, only thing that resolved my cramps on long hot rides like 947.

(I've done plenty of 21ks and one 32k, never get cramps while running)

[Bike Dewing]

12 minutes ago, TheoG said:

Mainly because with the running I could train and get to state where I could run a marathon (42.2) and even the odd ultra (up to 50km) without getting cramps.

With the cycling, almost every time I go over about 3 hours of riding, I'm almost guaranteed to cramp.

Running will benefit your general fitness and as a result cycling also but ultimately if you want to cycle better, you need to cycle.  I'm sure @Frosty can you much better advice though .... 😊.

The cramping thing I don’t get much of, as I don’t really cramp.. maybe I haven’t pushed myself to that point🤔.. I’ve cycled a 100km a few times and resulted nothing but tired legs and sore neck, shoulders and ass🤷🏼‍♂️.. 

I’ve run 5km before in about 35 minutes and maaaate, I ruined my weekend cos I couldnt walk for two days🤣🤣.. that was just sore joints and stiff muscles.. no cramping.. 

my friend cramped on long rides, he got a bike fitting and that sorted his cramps out🤷🏼‍♂️.. 

My concern with running is the impact, like I said my joints suffered.. hips and ankles.. think it’s got a lot to do with skating as a youngster.. I did some pretty dumb things🤣🤣.. but I need to run this dog sometime soon..🤦‍♂️

[TheoG]

13 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

Just pop a CrampEase every 30minutes, only thing that resolved my cramps on long hot rides like 947.

(I've done plenty of 21ks and one 32k, never get cramps while running)

I tried everything including Cramp Ease.  I popped 6 x 32Gi cramp assaults on 947 and still cramped, plus 32Gi Hydrate and Enduren in my bottles .... 🙈

I sweat a lot more than most and hence too much salt loss.  It seems as if I simply cant replace it fast enough, I looked like a salt factory after 947 (Road & MTB).

When I still ran, I used to take salt tabs, and I THINK that worked, maybe I must try that again:

https://clicks.co.za/saltabs_salt-tablets-30-tablets/p/54731?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2JjD39_XggMVt4BQBh0TnAMkEAQYASABEgI2dfD_BwE

[Vetplant]

3 minutes ago, TheoG said:

I tried everything including Cramp Ease.  I popped 6 x 32Gi cramp assaults on 947 and still cramped, plus 32Gi Hydrate and Enduren in my bottles .... 🙈

I sweat a lot more than most and hence too much salt loss.  It seems as if I simply cant replace it fast enough, I looked like a salt factory after 947 (Road & MTB).

When I still ran, I used to take salt tabs, and I THINK that worked, maybe I must try that again:

https://clicks.co.za/saltabs_salt-tablets-30-tablets/p/54731?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2JjD39_XggMVt4BQBh0TnAMkEAQYASABEgI2dfD_BwE

Good idea. I also sweat like a MoFo. Might just stock up on these, just in-case.

[Frosty]

I’m not an expert in this sweating and cramping matter, far from it, but I do understand the basic principles. You can easily work out how much you sweat per hour, without any fancy testing. However, the concentration of sodium in your sweat needs to be done with medical equipment.

For the test, weigh yourself before your ride (birthday suit weight). Weigh your bottles (empty and full). Take your closthes off after the ride and wipe any moisture off your skin, then weigh yourself again (birthday suit). Make a note of the amount of litres you consumed, and the duration of your ride.

Example (weights in Kg):
80.4(before) + 1.65 (2 full bottles) - 79.5 (after) - 0.15 (empty bottles) = 2.4kg or 2.4L / 3.5 hours (ride duration) = 0.68L/hour.

I’ll share a simple Excel file you can use to calculate your sweat rate. Mine is about 600ml/hour (outside), but double (indoors) on a hot day; probably because of the lack of adequate (evaporative) cooling.

You can test this a number of times to get an average sweat rate. Once you know that, you have a guideline, for what is required per hour.

If you know that your sweat concentration is, you will know which sodium replenishment rates are. Sweat concentrations can vary quite a lot, from 300mg to 1500mg.

I’ll share some links later/tomorrow relating to the physiology around blood volume, blood pressure, homeostasis, and other effects of sweat loss. I know enough to understand it, but not educate others.

[TheoG]

15 hours ago, Frosty said:

I’m not an expert in this sweating and cramping matter, far from it, but I do understand the basic principles. You can easily work out how much you sweat per hour, without any fancy testing. However, the concentration of sodium in your sweat needs to be done with medical equipment.

For the test, weigh yourself before your ride (birthday suit weight). Weigh your bottles (empty and full). Take your closthes off after the ride and wipe any moisture off your skin, then weigh yourself again (birthday suit). Make a note of the amount of litres you consumed, and the duration of your ride.

Example (weights in Kg):
80.4(before) + 1.65 (2 full bottles) - 79.5 (after) - 0.15 (empty bottles) = 2.4kg or 2.4L / 3.5 hours (ride duration) = 0.68L/hour.

I’ll share a simple Excel file you can use to calculate your sweat rate. Mine is about 600ml/hour (outside), but double (indoors) on a hot day; probably because of the lack of adequate (evaporative) cooling.

You can test this a number of times to get an average sweat rate. Once you know that, you have a guideline, for what is required per hour.

If you know that your sweat concentration is, you will know which sodium replenishment rates are. Sweat concentrations can vary quite a lot, from 300mg to 1500mg.

I’ll share some links later/tomorrow relating to the physiology around blood volume, blood pressure, homeostasis, and other effects of sweat loss. I know enough to understand it, but not educate others.

Thanks Frosty, I will for sure go through the process of doing this.  Where can I go for the sweat testing nearby?

I was wondering last night, if the purpose of sweat is to cool us down via convection and evaporative heat transfer, why the hell are we (as humans) not sweat water only?  Why the NaCl also ...  as it is an important part of muscle function?

Probably impossible to get a good answer for this, was just wondering ....

[shaper]

1 hour ago, TheoG said:

Thanks Frosty, I will for sure go through the process of doing this.  Where can I go for the sweat testing nearby?

I was wondering last night, if the purpose of sweat is to cool us down via convection and evaporative heat transfer, why the hell are we (as humans) not sweat water only?  Why the NaCl also ...  as it is an important part of muscle function?

Probably impossible to get a good answer for this, was just wondering ....

Here a good article regarding sweat testing and there is a link to a spreadsheet you can download and use, so every time you do a workout you can measure your sweat rate and start to get a better understanding as a starting point. 

https://www.precisionhydration.com/performance-advice/hydration/how-to-measure-your-sweat-rate/

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, TheoG said:

Thanks Frosty, I will for sure go through the process of doing this.  Where can I go for the sweat testing nearby?

I was wondering last night, if the purpose of sweat is to cool us down via convection and evaporative heat transfer, why the hell are we (as humans) not sweat water only?  Why the NaCl also ...  as it is an important part of muscle function?

Probably impossible to get a good answer for this, was just wondering ....

@shaper mentioned Precision Hydration, and I asked them for a contact in JHB.

The local contact was given as Carbon Endurance (John), was included in the response from Greg (UK). I never got any response from John. The test is R2,499 on their website, which many will feel is a lot. However, it gives you a starting point to ensure that you’re optimising your hydration needs.

[eala]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:23 PM, Avo said:

How does it work with riders on E-Bikes? There was one guy I noticed in my batch C and he did very well with a good time. 

I couldn't care less about what position I come overall, sex or in my class. It is all about the time which is my goal.

Just curious to know how the E-Bikes fit into the results.

There is a category for them .E-bikes .They irritate everybody but ,nice time !

[JJDT]

What I do to get the extra salt into my body that is lost by sweating is to snack on some "Dry Wors" starting from the first hour into riding and on the hour afterwards. In between I snack on energy bars just to have some food. I use this with my energy drinks.  I experimented at first with some boiled baby potatoes in salt but for me it is more food as the salt content is low compared to "Dry Wors" which also act as food but with more salt content to keep the cramps at bay.

[eala]

18 hours ago, Frosty said:

I’m not an expert in this sweating and cramping matter, far from it, but I do understand the basic principles. You can easily work out how much you sweat per hour, without any fancy testing. However, the concentration of sodium in your sweat needs to be done with medical equipment.

For the test, weigh yourself before your ride (birthday suit weight). Weigh your bottles (empty and full). Take your closthes off after the ride and wipe any moisture off your skin, then weigh yourself again (birthday suit). Make a note of the amount of litres you consumed, and the duration of your ride.

Example (weights in Kg):
80.4(before) + 1.65 (2 full bottles) - 79.5 (after) - 0.15 (empty bottles) = 2.4kg or 2.4L / 3.5 hours (ride duration) = 0.68L/hour.

I’ll share a simple Excel file you can use to calculate your sweat rate. Mine is about 600ml/hour (outside), but double (indoors) on a hot day; probably because of the lack of adequate (evaporative) cooling.

You can test this a number of times to get an average sweat rate. Once you know that, you have a guideline, for what is required per hour.

If you know that your sweat concentration is, you will know which sodium replenishment rates are. Sweat concentrations can vary quite a lot, from 300mg to 1500mg.

I’ll share some links later/tomorrow relating to the physiology around blood volume, blood pressure, homeostasis, and other effects of sweat loss. I know enough to understand it, but not educate others.

Cramping has two causes mainly . Efford is higher than you trained for !!!!! . and dehydration .Both made worst in Hot conditions .Genetic propensity to cramp ,to do with type of muscle fibre you have .Not treatable .I cramp almost always at the three hour mark on any event .When hot it happens earlier .If you ride terrain that you cannot really train for like Magalies Monster , cramps come earlier .Professional riders rarely cramp because they are super fit and have trained for the effort. Salty sweaters cramp more and earlier  .Hydration and electrolytes help .Anti cramp tab's do help if you take plenty at a time , like six tabs at every waterpoint .I ride with Game and bananas  because it contains a lot of Vitamin C , salt, potassium and sugar .There is no magic fix . I have researched cramps over ten years . I have three children and all of them cramp like i do , even when they are super fit .Best way is to ride through them or even slapping the cramping muscle helps .The pain impuls overrides the contractile one   

[Frosty]

39 minutes ago, eala said:

I ride with Game and bananas  because it contains a lot of Vitamin C, salt, potassium and sugar. 

If you are using Game and bananas you probably aren’t getting enough fuel in, to sustain longer workouts. You then go down another pathway that is a performance decline. Add the high temperatures and insufficient fluid intake, and you  compound the problem.

Game has 21g (carbs) of mixed as per instruction. A medium-sized banana (Woolies info) has about 15g. That’s 36g, which for many is enough for a low- to medium-duration ride of 2-4 hours but not higher intensity activities.

[Frosty]

Here's the Excel/GoogleSheets file to help determine your sweat rate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RAfsRi3Mj8r4Kmc9rPLtUlzh-fzbVC7h/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117753239725291367625&rtpof=true&sd=true

[Pieter-za]

1 hour ago, eala said:

  Efford is higher than you trained for !!!!! . 

and many (majority?) are in denial re this simple truth and will try even more / different etc products next time, instead of training and to condition properly to deliver the required effort....  (in general)

Edited November 23, 2023 by Pieter-za