Consumer rights & recourse with large global corporates?

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

ok just to humour myself.

Garmin Fenix 7

Garmin SA R13499

Garmin USA R699 = ~R10500 at today's exchange rate

So much for global village.

 

So if they have a USA, Taiwan and Europe based manufacturing plants and factories, how does that affect pricing?

Made in the USA, sold in the USA etc?

That coupled with our own tax/duties imposed by our powers that be  might also have an implication on the cost discrepancy.

We are pretty far from ALL of their manufacturing areas and our trade agreements aren't exactly tip top.

[shaper]

12 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Functionality wise I agree, but most of the guys who can afford these things like the bling colour screens, touch screens etc etc and the latest functionality just goes hand in hand with that.

30 hours at full function for the instinct is good enough for a 100 miler on 1 charge. 

I went for the Fenix 6x pro solar purely because I can get 60 hours full function tracking and breadcrumb, which I have occasionally needed. (By needed I didn't really as I still carried a battery pack 'just in case') hahahaha

We, as a group, tend to think we 'need' a bunch of stuff but really we don't. I was faster when I didn't have a GPS watch or bike computer tbh. I trained better.

 

To a degree I agree and disagree.  Whilst there is a small percentage who like the bling, they will hardly use the functionality.

Many who have been using the F3 for many a year cannot afford the F7 and are looking to upgrade but not at those prices or hang onto their F3 in the hope it does not die.  I was comparing the just released Instinct 2 with the FR745, which many consider upgrading to from the F3 because of price and is good enough for their needs and running and even doing a half Ironman.  Now for a similar price to the FR745 you could do a full ironman and get a whole load of metrics with the just released Instinct 2.

Your reasons for going for the F6x are specific to you, but your needs are as an extreme endurance athlete.

DC has a good write up on the boat load of functions and metrics that have been added to the Instinct 2 and it does not cost the earth https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/02/garmin-instinct2-2s-2-solar-in-depth-review.html

 

[Jewbacca]

2 minutes ago, shaper said:

To a degree I agree and disagree.  Whilst there is a small percentage who like the bling, they will hardly use the functionality.

Many who have been using the F3 for many a year cannot afford the F7 and are looking to upgrade but not at those prices or hang onto their F3 in the hope it does not die.  I was comparing the just released Instinct 2 with the FR745, which many consider upgrading to from the F3 because of price and is good enough for their needs and running and even doing a half Ironman.  Now for a similar price to the FR745 you could do a full ironman and get a whole load of metrics with the just released Instinct 2.

Your reasons for going for the F6x are specific to you, but your needs are as an extreme endurance athlete.

DC has a good write up on the boat load of functions and metrics that have been added to the Instinct 2 and it does not cost the earth https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/02/garmin-instinct2-2s-2-solar-in-depth-review.html

 

I completely agree with you. Sorry if I didn't come across as such.

I was saying that the Instinct 2 probably exceeds the needs of 99% of it's users BUT is less desirable (on this thread perhaps) as it doesn't have the colour screen, touch screen etc

If I wasn't such an idiot and did stuff only half as idiotic, I would buy the Instinct hands down. I was even hinting at the fact that I think I 'Should' have bought it instead of the 6x as I carry the battery pack anyway and could have saved a good chunk of ZAR.

For me, it's definitely THE option to go for if you're into metrics without the bling. 

 

[BrentCGP]

17 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

ok just to humour myself.

Garmin Fenix 7

Garmin SA R13499

Garmin USA R699 = ~R10500 at today's exchange rate

So much for global village.

 

USA MSRP doesn't have VAT / state taxes on so it's not THAT far off. TBH I got my Garmin products in UAE they cheaper there as well, but not by a huge amount..

 

Ship a Garmin here and just add VAT to it and you already close to the local price.

Like ice-cream man says. It's purchasing power.

800 USD is a ton more money to Saffa that an American.

[shaper]

1 minute ago, Jewbacca said:

I completely agree with you. Sorry if I didn't come across as such.

I was saying that the Instinct 2 probably exceeds the needs of 99% of it's users BUT is less desirable (on this thread perhaps) as it doesn't have the colour screen, touch screen etc

If I wasn't such an idiot and did stuff only half as idiotic, I would buy the Instinct hands down. I was even hinting at the fact that I think I 'Should' have bought it instead of the 6x as I carry the battery pack anyway and could have saved a good chunk of ZAR.

For me, it's definitely THE option to go for if you're into metrics without the bling. 

 

I currently have the FR945 which I have had for a number of years.  As a triathlete the Instinct was not a consideration as did not do open water swimming.  Now the Instinct 2 does have open waster swimming and triathlon and more metrics than I currently monitor.  It is a serious consideration should my FR945 need replacing.

[M L]

On 2/7/2022 at 4:34 PM, rudi-h said:

It is only worth R8k if I give them another R4k. It has zero value otherwise ok any market.

If this were a R120k Breitling, would you accept that it just broke down and the only way to fix it is to pay the same shop another R40k with no option to only replace only the bit that failed?  Now the conversation is suddenly different? You guys are welcome to suck up to the said supplier and accept unfavourable proposals, but I certainly think that holding you hostage with an unfavourable repair/replace option, (I e. Pay us R4k or lose it all) is not right.  At least give me an option just to pay for a repair, or tell me what I could/should have done differently to get reasonable life from their product.

Answer this:

1) Should it last more than 2 years

2) was there anything that I could to to prevent it from failing

If yes to 1 and no to 2, why is this my problem and financial liability. That's at least how I see it.

The point of this wasn't to argue with you guys, I asked how to take on a large companies that bullies its customers into submission.

I'm with you on this one. 

A warranty policy is one thing but brand integrity/ethics is another.

Currently dealing with a cracked carbon rim that the supplier won't exchange because I'm not the original owner and because the rim was bought at a hugely discounted price. In my mind, the only reason you would restrict a warranty to the original owner is because you're trying your utmost to make it look like you have a nice warranty, but you actually don't want to honour it. Not even Game asks you who you bought your TV from if it breaks. And they definitely don't tell you that it is was -50% so the warranty doesn't count.

Edited February 10, 2022 by M L
spelling

[Vetplant]

36 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I completely agree with you. Sorry if I didn't come across as such.

I was saying that the Instinct 2 probably exceeds the needs of 99% of it's users BUT is less desirable (on this thread perhaps) as it doesn't have the colour screen, touch screen etc

If I wasn't such an idiot and did stuff only half as idiotic, I would buy the Instinct hands down. I was even hinting at the fact that I think I 'Should' have bought it instead of the 6x as I carry the battery pack anyway and could have saved a good chunk of ZAR.

For me, it's definitely THE option to go for if you're into metrics without the bling. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, shaper said:

I currently have the FR945 which I have had for a number of years.  As a triathlete the Instinct was not a consideration as did not do open water swimming.  Now the Instinct 2 does have open waster swimming and triathlon and more metrics than I currently monitor.  It is a serious consideration should my FR945 need replacing.

Oi, stop agreeing so much. This is not what we are here for!

 

[Shebeen]

30 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

 

Oi, stop agreeing so much. This is not what we are here for!

 

3:43 well spent

 

[MTBeer]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:57 PM, AdamA said:

 

I have a Casio Edifice (divers) watch.
To replace the battery at Cajees is R200.
To have it Pressure tested is another R600. 

I don't dive with the watch so don't really need to have it Pressure tested, so I buy a R25 battery from Clicks and do it myself. 

I think the reason Garmin won't replace the battery is that locally, they don't have the Dust-free/sterile environment where the watches are originally made, so they cannot guarantee it will meet the OEM standards. 

If Garmin don't sort you out, you could take the watch to the Cell-Fix guys and I'm sure they would be able to make a plan it this ....

https://pclinkshop.com/products/hqrp-battery-works-with-pd3555-garmin-fenix-1-fenix-2-tactix-gps-watch-361-00061-00-3-7v-500mah-coaster

 

I am sorry for you loss, and understand your frustration.

Many years ago I bought a A200 Merc and extended the warrantee to 7years/100000km.
At 105,000km the Automatic Gearbox went, cost me R35K and took 7 weeks to repair
A month later the right driveshaft snapped. R8000.
A month later the left drive shaft snapped R7500.
I sold the car 2 weeks later for R65000.(netting only R15,000 after the repairs) 

 

To me your options are 

a. Fight with Garmin for the next 3 months and 'maybe' get some joy

b. take your watch to Cell-Fix guys and see if they can make a plan - but your watch won't be waterproof

c. spend the R4000 for the Repair ( but make sure you get a "New" watch) and then sell it "New still in box" and buy another brand 

d. spend the R4000 for the Repair ( but make sure you get a "New" watch) and then enjoy the watch like you did 2+ years ago. 

 

 

option e. ride your bike without a timing / heart-rate device and just enjoy the ride. saves you 4k and is better for the soul.

 

[rudi-h]

Latest (and likely final) update

I received an email yesterday saying that they tested the watch and it's working just fine...  I almost fell of my chair.  After claiming that no repairs are possible and 2 weeks of emails, calls and drama it's just working again?  I thought they were joking, so I just drove there earlier today to pick it up and truesbob, it's working just like the day I bought it... (still need to test battery life, but all good on face value)

How did they fix it? - Apparently they installed some beta software upgrade/downgrade, which confirms that this whole failure was purely caused by buggy software...  That begs the question that if buggy software is such a big issue, why don't they just do their software reinstall magic before sending a R4k quote for replacement?  What would have happened if I didn't bitch and moan? - I would have no doubt pi$$ed R4k down the drain to replace something that was never broken.

So some advice should your own Garmin fail:

- Ask them to do a software upgrade / downgrade

- Don't just accept the first quote, it might be worth digging deeper

- Garmin initially seemed like a faceless organization.  Via phone and email I could not get past the call centre who frankly were not really interested in anything other than offering me the R4k replacement deal.  Only after my insistence to speak to a senior service consultant in person did I get through to a team of people who are qualified and capable to resolve these issues.  These people do exist and I must acknowledge that they were helpful and supportive.

Not sure if this leaves me as a happy customer, because I do feel that I had to "fight" in order not to get shafted.  Similarly, it would be unfair to claim that the outcome was not satisfactory and that Garmin SA did not offer support.  I'll go edit my posts on the other thread to align with this sentiment.

[BaGearA]

Still wouldn't buy A Garmin product after reading this thread 

[Forthelove]

Had bad service from Garmin, big attitude to deal with.. never the less product is good. I think Apple offering, the next new 2023 Apple watch will make most sports watches close to redundant. 

[Charlie600]

Electronic products (whether it be a Fenix, iPhone or washing machine) are by default covered by a 24 month warranty in the majority of European countries

My iPhone recently went bust after 14 months of ownership and needless to say that it was replaced on a no questions asked basis.

This however made me realise how often I've historically had to fork out for a replacement product (yes Garmin, looking at you for all those heart rate monitors) when the exact same product is in fact covered for twice as long in Europe.

I'm no expert regarding the legislative requirements that forced the manufacturers into this 2 year warranty period but the SA politicians should implement something similar from a consumer protection perspective, given that it can clearly be done (similar to some countries that forced apple to provide chargers with their phones in the event of wanting to sell the product within the said market etc.).

Edited February 11, 2022 by Charlie600

[Andreas_187]

4 hours ago, rudi-h said:

Latest (and likely final) update

I received an email yesterday saying that they tested the watch and it's working just fine...  I almost fell of my chair.  After claiming that no repairs are possible and 2 weeks of emails, calls and drama it's just working again?  I thought they were joking, so I just drove there earlier today to pick it up and truesbob, it's working just like the day I bought it... (still need to test battery life, but all good on face value)

How did they fix it? - Apparently they installed some beta software upgrade/downgrade, which confirms that this whole failure was purely caused by buggy software...  That begs the question that if buggy software is such a big issue, why don't they just do their software reinstall magic before sending a R4k quote for replacement?  What would have happened if I didn't bitch and moan? - I would have no doubt pi$$ed R4k down the drain to replace something that was never broken.

So some advice should your own Garmin fail:

- Ask them to do a software upgrade / downgrade

- Don't just accept the first quote, it might be worth digging deeper

- Garmin initially seemed like a faceless organization.  Via phone and email I could not get past the call centre who frankly were not really interested in anything other than offering me the R4k replacement deal.  Only after my insistence to speak to a senior service consultant in person did I get through to a team of people who are qualified and capable to resolve these issues.  These people do exist and I must acknowledge that they were helpful and supportive.

Not sure if this leaves me as a happy customer, because I do feel that I had to "fight" in order not to get shafted.  Similarly, it would be unfair to claim that the outcome was not satisfactory and that Garmin SA did not offer support.  I'll go edit my posts on the other thread to align with this sentiment.

You're a happy customer? 

What if you had just bought a brand new device to replace the one that Garmin claimed was broken. What a sham from Garmin 

[Trashy]

1 minute ago, Andreas_187 said:

You're a happy customer? 

What if you had just bought a brand new device to replace the one that Garmin claimed was broken. What a sham from Garmin 

He literally said,

"Not sure if this leaves me as a happy customer".

 

[Andreas_187]

Just now, Trashy said:

He literally said,

"Not sure if this leaves me as a happy customer".

 

Exactly, is it even a question after finding out this whole debacle was caused by Garmin's own issue to begin with. They should be compensating him