180 Heart Rate MAF Training

[love2fly]

Has anybody or IS anybody successfully tried/trying the above method as prescribed by Dr? Phil Maffetone?

I'm trying to get into it but its so hard to keep my HR below around 75% of my max where I mostly train in the Cradle. As I get to a climb my HR spikes and I really don't want to cruise up and down a flat all day.....

[Frosty]

Why are you doing it, and what do you hope to get out of it?
How long (duration) are your rides?
What speed are you happy to ride at?
I ask, because I know how to go as slow as I need to, to stay below VT1/LT1. 

[love2fly]

51 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Why are you doing it, and what do you hope to get out of it?
How long (duration) are your rides?
What speed are you happy to ride at?
I ask, because I know how to go as slow as I need to, to stay below VT1/LT1. 

I'm trying it as after 23 years of cycling I feel I'm marking time. I'm restricting calories to lose weight, albeit not to the point of too few calories. But enough to make HIT difficult. I like what I've read about MAF and it correlates with what I've read about Base training and it helping build small blood capillaries. I'm currently averaging about 22kmhr and as I said trying not to exceed 75% HR which is 180 - my age + 5 beats +-   I have 2 questions: 

Does MAF work?

Can I mix HIT now and then or is it MAF only?

[Frosty]

Does MAF work? Yes, it's another way to determine the Z1 (3-zone model) or Z1+2 (5 zone model). Then you keep all your endurance workouts as close to this "upper limit". 

Can you mix HIT now and then?
Of course, but it all depends what you want to get out of the HIT sessions.
What are you training for?

 

Using this formula would give you a ball park figure.

There are other ways to calculate this, without having to subject yourself to invasive testing, eg. blood lactate test, then read this thread on HRV and using DFA a1 to determine the same upper limit on Z1 / Z1+2.

[love2fly]

Thanks will read that thread.

Reason for doing it is just to slim down and get into better fitness. Right now weight loss would provide my biggest gain. I'm probably at 60% of reasonable fitness but losing 15kg which I know isn't easy, would be a big +. I've lost around 19kg on and off over the last 3 years but want to get the process going again. I seldom do races anymore, but wouldn't mind doing the odd Nissan Trailseeker.

[Frosty]

Most people say “just ride”.
Nothing wrong with that.

If you just ride (according to MAF) you will see a benefit, but it takes a long time to build aerobic fitness. HIT will help with the short, punchy bumps/climbs on the Trailseeker events.

[love2fly]

👍 In time I'll add some HIT. Thinking of doing the odd MTB ride in the week to add HIT and longer slow, road on weekends.

[SwissVan]

5 hours ago, love2fly said:

Has anybody or IS anybody successfully tried/trying the above method as prescribed by Dr? Phil Maffetone?

I'm trying to get into it but its so hard to keep my HR below around 75% of my max where I mostly train in the Cradle. As I get to a climb my HR spikes and I really don't want to cruise up and down a flat all day.....

I tried it about 10 years ago for for a couple of months for my running, eventually i gave up as it was to frustrating trying to keep my HR as low as the MAF method requires. Did not see any noticeable gains during this time. 

Yet there are athletes who swear by it, but I'm a firm believer in mixing it up with easy (MAF) and hard

 

[ChrisF]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Most people say “just ride”.
Nothing wrong with that.

If you just ride (according to MAF) you will see a benefit, but it takes a long time to build aerobic fitness. HIT will help with the short, punchy bumps/climbs on the Trailseeker events.

Any sources for a newbie that wants to read up on HIT ?

[_David_]

I tried MAF a couple a years ago for my running eventually gave up.  Like @SwissVan said I found it too frustrating to try and keep my HR as low as the MAF method requires. But I have a couple friends who are much better runners than me who swears by it.

[tsdutweet]

As frustrating as MAF is, it does work, but you need to stick to it for at least 6 months. We are so conditioned to red line our ALL our rides and the one thing I did learn with my MAF training is that it is ok to slow down and enjoy the ride and surroundings. 

Best is when you are able to climb to the top of Irish in Jonkershoek at a Max HR of 144 and feel super fresh for the downhill. 

[The Ouzo]

best way I found to keep the HR low is to ride with someone less fit than you, you ride at their pace. 

 

[Jakkals.]

There's definitely a benefit training in this zone...I dont think it will work well for a time crunched cyclist, but mixing HIIT with zone2 stuff will be beneficial.

I dont think you have to keep looking at HR, just ride and dont push it, of course the terrain will force you to go a bit higher at times and thats ok.

[Frosty]

10 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Any sources for a newbie that wants to read up on HIT ?

Fast Talk Labs is a good place to start, although not all the information is available to non-subscribers. They have the links to studies/research included in most of their pathways.

Lots of podcasts out there, but I find the really good coaches don't know how to translate information to a beginner, but are good for the advanced athlete.

[Frosty]

Many people expect that riding for 1 hour below the limit will help, but that isn't long enough to see physiological adaptations. These rides need to be 3-4 hours or longer (for cyclists).

Below is a extract from their forum, where the CEO had this to say in a thread called how easy is "easy"? It was in response to a guy that has Polarised his training (80% of sessions are below MAF or LT1 based on the methodology you follow.

[love2fly]

Something I forgot to mention is that the initial MAF training I read mentioned that we generally go to hard on the Easy days, and too easy on the Hard days - This was me mostly although no really easy days, just trying to grind all the time and not making any progress. Thus where I think I'm headed is to ride 80% of my distance/time at MAF and do around 20% at a higher intensity.