Nutrition for long rides

[Frosty]

27 minutes ago, Job said:

 

The 2:1 Glucose (60g) to Fructose(30g) per hour is old dogma. Currently even SIS has moved away from it and i's now on 1:08 ratio of Glucose to Fructose. There are people who are taking up to 120g of carbs per hour especially in a race, so the additional 30g over the  90g " limit" is still absorbed by both transporters. I think it boils down  to one's gut tolerance and how you have trained your body over time.

The 60+30 is for the average Joe, not the well trained. There may be new ways of fueling but it doesn’t mean the last 50-60 years’ of doing things are wrong; but rather there has been an improvement.

[love2fly]

6 hours ago, Frosty said:

If you eat a breakfast of 100g, and weigh 100Kg, you would need to wait 1 hour before riding. The guideline to wait is 1g carbs per Kg of body mass per hour. Failure to do so can result reactive hypoglycemia (a double low level of blood glucose from eating and exercise).

So you eat hours before or about 15 minutes into the ride.

I second this, although it differs somewhat for me. I have a light breakfast of 2 thin slices of ciabatta with Flora & jam but MUST be 2 hours before ride. Any shorter and I feel tired. If I don't have breakfast I start to eat 10 to 15 into a ride. I start with an energy bar and move onto bread rolls with thin spread Flora and a slice of ham. I make each roll then cut into two and squash down and wrap in a little clingfilm. I enjoy the savoury after the sweet juice (I've done back to back comparisons with more expensive Biogen and the cheapest USN and I get the same results). Having over the years used Cytomax, Hammer, 32GI and many others I find them all similar. If you're fit you can eat and drink what you want and as little as you like and it's what you're accustomed to...

[love2fly]

On 4/26/2022 at 2:52 PM, Jbr said:

That is one dumb post right there. Don't do that at home.

Riding fasted won't make up for an unhealthy/unbalanced diet and it will certainly not make you stronger. It hasn't been said you must eat 1g/kg/hour for every hour of training either.

But if you do a workout, better make sure you fuel during and after if you want the gains, otherwise all you'll get is fatigue.

 

I personally always have a good breakfast before a ride/race. Only maybe once a month I go for a 2 hour fasted ride.

I only fuel on the bike for the 2+ hours LSD rides or workouts. Most 1hour/1,5hours LSD rides I don't even take water on the bike except if it's a hot day.

Yip. Although fasted rides DO play a role but not every day. They do help me lose weight and burn fat but only now and then

Edited April 28, 2022 by love2fly

[BigDL]

3 hours ago, wattnow said:

Far too much eating going on here. No need for eating on a training ride unless you going over 3 hours. After that a banana or 2 is plenty.

Food cannot replace a lack of training or fitness.

Keep it simple, eat less, train more 😃

Racing and stage racing a completely different story though.

According to Geraint Thomas. You shouldn’t eat during a ride less than two hours 

Edited April 26, 2022 by BigDL

[Frosty]

According to some well respected coaches and sports scientists, 45-60 mins can be done on zero carbs. 90-mins would be a stretch, again, depending on intensity.

better to over budget than run short.

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

My approach is simple. I eat big before any training or event. And during, I eat before I get hungry and drink before I get thirsty. 
 

I can smash so much food and drink while racing, its crazy. Gels seem to do the trick when the going gets really tough. I don’t have any sort of mathematical approach, but I rarely bonk, because I prob eat too much. 
 

This has worked for me through various ultra events. But I’ve found that nutrition is extremely personal and what works for me seldom works for others, so the best bet is trial and error. 

[Marcv]

i try to fuel everything even the zone 2 stuff mainly to train my stomach. Over the last 2 years i have built myself up from one farbar (25g) on a 50km ride to about 70g of carbs per hour. 

When you using specific product i found proper fuelling got expensive really fast so my latest experiment is 60g of sugar and 15 - 20g of game in a 800ml bottle. Works surprisingly well and its actually easy on the stomach......

 

 

[buckstopper]

For Saturday's Swartberg (171km 3000m ascent) my aim is to average a  normalised 80% (of ftp). I aim to eat 6 cadence energy bars and 6 SIS gels,  (both 40g net carbs, 1:08 m/f), plus Carbofuel, 2 x 950ml bottles with 80g net carbs each. Also taking a 3rd bottle, water. That's 640g. Maybe some potato at 100km. Aiming to be at Die Top in about 6.5 - 7 hours if I box clever. Will let yous know how my nutrition plan works. 

[ChrisF]

4 hours ago, Jbr said:

Yes, that means your last food intake was probably 7 hours before your workout, and probably not a very optimised meal. Problem is now that you are used to it you’ll likely battle to do intensity right after eating your oats. You don’t need to eat your full bowl though, if you ride 60 to 90mins maybe eat 80g of oats before your ride and finish your meal right after, it’s actually good to eat oats right after anyways.

I personnaly prep my oats/coffee the evening before, microwave it 30 secs, down it and jump straight on the bike, but it takes me 40-ish mins to get to the first climb and I’ve been doing it for years so I don’t struggle at all with digestion. I know people who have to eat at least 2 hours before the start of a race, which for early starts can be a bit of a problem !

 

You have me wondering ...

 

I used to be bloated early in the ride, after breakfast.  Eventually settled on Pronutro at least 30 minutes before the ride.

 

Now wondering if my body got used to breakfast, then the ride .... must try some other breakfasts to check ....

 

 

Actually the bigger challenge for me now is the drive away events .... too much time between breakfast and the start of the event ...

[Frosty]

Mid-April, we did a 12-man team time trial with only 8 riders. One was dropped after 3Km, so we effectively did the full distance with 7 riders. 177Km, 2000m elevation gain, 6 hour ride time, 4300kJ of which 1500kJ was >FTP (60g per hour was the my on-bike nutrition, with some extra carbs at halfway and one of the water points while waiting for ride number 6).

• 3 got their nutrition right, at least from the post ride data, AND FEEL on the day;
• 3 were okay, but lacked sufficient training more than nutrition (No. 8 slotted in here);
• 1 was close to a bonk about 130Km in, but managed to dig himself out the hole (slowly);
• 1 got it wrong (self diagnosed as over eating).

Everyone was prepped before the time to ensure they took enough for the 6 hours, split in two parts at the halfway point (if 105Km can be considered halfway).

4 of the 7 were unaware of the exact requirement needed for 6 hours (probably sweet spot level effort). If left alone, they would have taken 50-60% of what they ended up eating and we'd be talking a different story.

[Frosty]

2 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

Actually the bigger challenge for me now is the drive away events .... too much time between breakfast and the start of the event ...

That's a good thing... it allows you to have a proper breakfast at home, and let it fully digest and find it way into your muscle glycogen (and liver). 

Just remember: 1g of carbs per Kg body mass per hour
If you weigh 90Kg, and eat 180g of carbs in your breakfast, you must wait 2 hours.
If you weigh 80Kg, and eat 180g of carbs in your breakfast, you must wait 2.25 hours (2h15.
If you weigh 70Kg, and eat 180g of carbs in your breakfast, you must wait 2.5 hours (2h34).

[buckstopper]

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

Mid-April, we did a 12-man team time trial with only 8 riders. One was dropped after 3Km, so we effectively did the full distance with 7 riders. 177Km, 2000m elevation gain, 6 hour ride time, 4300kJ of which 1500kJ was >FTP (60g per hour was the my on-bike nutrition, with some extra carbs at halfway and one of the water points while waiting for ride number 6).

• 3 got their nutrition right, at least from the post ride data, AND FEEL on the day;
• 3 were okay, but lacked sufficient training more than nutrition (No. 8 slotted in here);
• 1 was close to a bonk about 130Km in, but managed to dig himself out the hole (slowly);
• 1 got it wrong (self diagnosed as over eating).

Everyone was prepped before the time to ensure they took enough for the 6 hours, split in two parts at the halfway point (if 105Km can be considered halfway).

4 of the 7 were unaware of the exact requirement needed for 6 hours (probably sweet spot level effort). If left alone, they would have taken 50-60% of what they ended up eating and we'd be talking a different story.

Where did you fit in? I'm expecting to burn about 700-750 kcal/hr ave at Swartberg. Hopefully not much at over ftp. The challenge of tolerating about 100g/hr for 7hrs is going to be a first. We'll see...

[Dicky DQ]

I don't do things right but fueling depends on want you want to achieve. I would typically not eat breakfast or take anything but water on the bike for base rides up to 100km. I don't really have enough time in the morning. Normally alarm goes off and I am out on the bike in max 15 mins.

However if you are doing hard intervals etc or a hard 100km ride breakfast a fueling on the bike would be needed.

See here: https://trainright.com/what-to-eat-and-drink-during-bike-rides-of-any-length/

 

[Murrob]

I have always struggled with getting enough nutrition in on the bike and typically have a really hard time eating in the early mornings, best I can do is a protein, fruit and oats smoothy in the morning that I drink on the way to the ride or race.

But a revelation for me while riding has been 32GI, so now carry a bottle of race pro mixed to the concentration that you need depending on the length of the ride and the other bottle will be their hydrate tablet added to water. Depending on the ride you can really make the race pro quite thick, it is much easier I find to then take a gulp at intervals throughout the ride and it keeps me fuelled and happy. 
 

Now to come across as a 32GI fan boy…
 

Shorter rides 60min or less - 32GI hydrate added to water

Shorter to medium 60-120min - 32GI Endure 

Longer rides 120min + - 32GI Racepro mixed to cover intake requirements for expected ride time, work out what needs to be consumed per hour and mark it out on your bottle. Hydration is then 32GI tablets mixed with water.

Haven’t eating properly throughout the day, because life… - Far Bar as a snack before and during ride

Break open in case of emergency - 32GI gels, anti cramp and coffee shot (really for the 30min of ride race we you may be hurting)

I will concede the above is pretty pricey, so generally wait for 3 for 2 specials on 32GI to then stock up to keep costs down. But it works really well for me and I like the fact that it’s all very clean and free of all the bad stuff and is plant based protein etc, but I am sure you could do other combinations and get on well also. But the trick is the protein carb mix in the Racepro

[Frosty]

4 hours ago, buckstopper said:

Where did you fit in? I'm expecting to burn about 700-750 kcal/hr ave at Swartberg. Hopefully not much at over ftp. The challenge of tolerating about 100g/hr for 7hrs is going to be a first. We'll see...

I know what my nutritional needs are, so the first group that got it right. As “road captain” of the group, I also know how to “control” the pace of the group.

[W@nted]

8 hours ago, Murrob said:

I have always struggled with getting enough nutrition in on the bike and typically have a really hard time eating in the early mornings, best I can do is a protein, fruit and oats smoothy in the morning that I drink on the way to the ride or race.

But a revelation for me while riding has been 32GI, so now carry a bottle of race pro mixed to the concentration that you need depending on the length of the ride and the other bottle will be their hydrate tablet added to water. Depending on the ride you can really make the race pro quite thick, it is much easier I find to then take a gulp at intervals throughout the ride and it keeps me fuelled and happy. 
 

Now to come across as a 32GI fan boy…
 

Shorter rides 60min or less - 32GI hydrate added to water

Shorter to medium 60-120min - 32GI Endure 

Longer rides 120min + - 32GI Racepro mixed to cover intake requirements for expected ride time, work out what needs to be consumed per hour and mark it out on your bottle. Hydration is then 32GI tablets mixed with water.

Haven’t eating properly throughout the day, because life… - Far Bar as a snack before and during ride

Break open in case of emergency - 32GI gels, anti cramp and coffee shot (really for the 30min of ride race we you may be hurting)

I will concede the above is pretty pricey, so generally wait for 3 for 2 specials on 32GI to then stock up to keep costs down. But it works really well for me and I like the fact that it’s all very clean and free of all the bad stuff and is plant based protein etc, but I am sure you could do other combinations and get on well also. But the trick is the protein carb mix in the Racepro

I am also a huge fan if 32 gi race pro for any rides longer than 2.5 hours. Just makes the nutrition plan so much simpler. Cost wise it is actually cheaper per ride compared to say 3 bottles of cadence, 3 gels and 3 bars (3 hours ride and similar amount of carbs)…