Bearings vs bushes

[FS]

Good morning - does anyone have experience / tried to replace the main pivot bearings with bushes on the rocker of a full-sus? I am heavy and find that i need to replace this specific bearing quite often. Was wondering weather bushes will give me more ride-time before replacement is needed? Alternatively, i assume not all bearings are equal - which ones would you recommend as bomb-proof for this application?

I have a 2018 Trek Top Fuel 9.8

[Theunissa]

6 minutes ago, FS said:

Good morning - does anyone have experience / tried to replace the main pivot bearings with bushes on the rocker of a full-sus? I am heavy and find that i need to replace this specific bearing quite often. Was wondering weather bushes will give me more ride-time before replacement is needed? Alternatively, i assume not all bearings are equal - which ones would you recommend as bomb-proof for this application?

I have a 2018 Trek Top Fuel 9.8

I can't answer on bikes but on cars, garagedoors and gate motors bushes are far worse than bearings. I can't believe your weight breaks bearings except if they are cheap replacements. 

[BaGearA]

SKF MTRX full complement bearing if you want max life.

 

I don't know what the cost will be , but it will be high 

[Graham W]

Go with "Max" bearing as they have more balls to carry the load compared to a std bearing . And are ideal for linkages on a d/s . 

Your Lbs should have stock and the Enduro brand has a 6mth warranty 

[madmarc]

My Top Fuel is a bit later model than your pic

The bearing indicated is in the frame - on mine its a 12 X 21 X 8 RS which according to my research is only made by ENDURO

They are not cheap - 300 ronds each, so i feel your pain as the frame takes 4 of them

I doubt you will get away with bushes - use the MAX bearing and keep it clean - budget to replace them once a year depending how much riding you do 

[thebob]

Whether you diy the job or get your LBS to do it, pop the seal of the bearing and pack it with some waterproof grease and then replace the seal. That will help a lot with improving the bearing longevity

[droo]

Enduro MAX - 6 month warranty.

Enduro CXD - lifetime warranty.

Those SKFs are proper as well, but only available in standard sizes.

You could probably convert to a bushing, but you'll end up going through bolts instead of bearings, and that'll end up costing you way more.

[DieselnDust]

Just now, DieselnDust said:

11 minutes ago, droo said:

Enduro MAX - 6 month warranty.

Enduro CXD - lifetime warranty.

Those SKFs are proper as well, but only available in standard sizes.

You could probably convert to a bushing, but you'll end up going through bolts instead of bearings, and that'll end up costing you way more.is the enduro cxd

Expand  

The enduro cxd is frighteningly expensive!

I’ve tried to find skf mtrx bearings in SA but no luck. Is there a distributor becssue skf SA wants me to buy a minimum of 100units of each type to bring them in.

[droo]

Just now, DieselnDust said:

The enduro cxd is frighteningly expensive!

I’ve tried to find skf mtrx bearings in SA but no luck. Is there a distributor becssue skf SA wants me to buy a minimum of 100units of each type to bring them in.

Ruan at Spokeworks should be able to help you.

And yes, those CXD bearings are extortionate.

But we don't know what bearings OP has been fitting - if they're R20 BMG specials then the MAX should be fine. If they're already decent bearings, then the CXD may be worth the extra cos they'll last the lifetime of the frame.

[dave303e]

On the enduro and motocross bikes I always found the suspension linkage bearings took the worst abuse. My Honda right now needs the linkage bearings replaced. I had a Kawasaki that I managed to tap a grease nipple in and that was a game changer being able to flush the bearing with grease often. But with most bikes and definitely bicycles a grease nipple is not an option. I find the bicycles don't have the best seals to protect the linkage bearings so it doesn't matter what you put in there it is going to take flack especially if you go anywhere near it with degreaser and any form of water pressure. Stick with standard bearings and get into a routing of taking them out and cleaning and re-greasing more often.

[Wyatt Earp]

All good advice here, but the truth of the matter, bearings wear and need replacement.

Also bear in mind, unlike a wheel bearing, a pivot bearing doesn’t rotate.

Bushings won’t be your solution. Also bear in mind that bearing installation is critical to bearing longevity…..ie a hammer and socket won’t be the ideal way to evenly press a bearing in to its home.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Wyatt Earp

[DieselnDust]

14 minutes ago, dave303e said:

On the enduro and motocross bikes I always found the suspension linkage bearings took the worst abuse. My Honda right now needs the linkage bearings replaced. I had a Kawasaki that I managed to tap a grease nipple in and that was a game changer being able to flush the bearing with grease often. But with most bikes and definitely bicycles a grease nipple is not an option. I find the bicycles don't have the best seals to protect the linkage bearings so it doesn't matter what you put in there it is going to take flack especially if you go anywhere near it with degreaser and any form of water pressure. Stick with standard bearings and get into a routing of taking them out and cleaning and re-greasing more often.

Low friction seals are not needed in pivot bearings. Full contact seals will result in longer life. The bearings don’t rotate enough for low drag non contact seals to be worth the cost of reduced life span 

[love2fly]

I have long considered trying Vesconite as a bushing material as my Trigon had some shitty urothane type bushes that hardened and broke (pictured below, it is inside the main pivot to protect the alu link from the through bolt).

The Vesconite worked amazingly well and way better than the OEM shite..

My concern with replacing bearings with this stuff is that the bearing might want to rotate in the cup as there will be greater friction until the pivot surfaces bed in.

For those naysayers, Vesconite is extensively used and even replaced brass bushes in railways machinery and seldom needs lube.

I wouldn't mind dabbling but the cost is also high to get set up but thereafter, cheaper than chips.

I used to have to replace bearings often but have learned that there is a trick to correct installation, wash carefully, only use Max bearings on pivots and clean and lube bigger bearings regularly for e.g. BB, and check/top up grease with new BB bearings as they can sit on a shelf for ages and dry out...

[dave303e]

24 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Low friction seals are not needed in pivot bearings. Full contact seals will result in longer life. The bearings don’t rotate enough for low drag non contact seals to be worth the cost of reduced life span 

Ya I am note sure what type of seals are in either the honda or my old scott mtb. But both didn't take much to let water in, hence my thinking that the bearing failures may be more to do with the seal letting water and dirt in, than the bearing itself.  But both seem to do better when they are taken out, cleaned and fresh grease packed in regularly.

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, love2fly said:

I have long considered trying Vesconite as a bushing material as my Trigon had some shitty urothane type bushes that hardened and broke (pictured below, it is inside the main pivot to protect the alu link from the through bolt).

The Vesconite worked amazingly well and way better than the OEM shite..

My concern with replacing bearings with this stuff is that the bearing might want to rotate in the cup as there will be greater friction until the pivot surfaces bed in.

For those naysayers, Vesconite is extensively used and even replaced brass bushes in railways machinery and seldom needs lube.

I wouldn't mind dabbling but the cost is also high to get set up but thereafter, cheaper than chips.

I used to have to replace bearings often but have learned that there is a trick to correct installation, wash carefully, only use Max bearings on pivots and clean and lube bigger bearings regularly for e.g. BB, and check/top up grease with new BB bearings as they can sit on a shelf for ages and dry out...

Vesconite bushes would be great but need to be machined by someone who does this regularly. Dimensionally it’s a stable material and doesn’t absorb much water and also doesn’t change its friction properties much across a wide temperature range. Shock loads are also handled quite comfortably for our application. It’s a pity it’s not considered more seriously when bikes are designed

[madmarc]

2 hours ago, dave303e said:

Ya I am note sure what type of seals are in either the honda or my old scott mtb. But both didn't take much to let water in, hence my thinking that the bearing failures may be more to do with the seal letting water and dirt in, than the bearing itself.  But both seem to do better when they are taken out, cleaned and fresh grease packed in regularly.

Exactly - 99.9% of failure is from dirt and water - A quick service is to remove the outer outer seal, clean out the bearing, blow it out with compressed air, repack it with grease and re-insert the seal. they will last longer than the frame.