Clipless vs Flats Advice

[440MTB]

Hey there all, I trust you're well!

So I've recently started transitioning away from traditional XC styled gear, over to some more trail type gear, as I feel I'm enjoying challenge of the berms and more gnarly terrain these days, and may try the longer travel bike route at some point, but currently I have my Scott Spark 910 (carbon) up for sale, as I've transitioned over to a cheaper short travel trail bike (Aluminium), which I don't feel sorry for/worried about when taking a slam (which I took a fairly hard one around 3 weeks back at Jonkershoek on my 2nd ride on the trail bike).

That said I do still like doing longer rides (I like riding from home, hitting a few trails, and riding back [anything from 30 to 70+km), but the bike I have is more than comfortable enough for said longer rides (albeit not as fast as my Spark).

So, I've got a few questions pertaining to clipless vs flats for you guys in the know:

1. Flats (Pedals)

• I've not ridden flats, basically, ever... I've been riding clipless since I got back into MTB'ing in Feb 2022 (Done around 3700km to date).
• Would it be detrimental to change over to flats for longer rides (as I only see the benefits of flats when hitting more trail/enduro type terrain such as Jonkershoek, etc, here in CPT)?

2. Clipless Flats (Shoes):

• Would one be able to ride a set of clipless flats without clips installed on flats with a decent amount of grip, without damaging the shoes (where the clips install)? I was thinking of perhaps having a friend 3D print covers in a rubber material for me to cover the clipless slots/hole in the sole when running flats only.
• I'd then just install my SPD pedals on my bike, and install the clips on the shoes when I do intend on doing longer rides.

3. Flats Only (Shoes):

• Would they do the job on longer rides as well, or are clipless pedals simply the way to go for longer rides?

I'm not fast by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel like I'm enjoying the learning curve/challenge/allure of more gravity type riding. That said, I feel sometimes I get held back by the idea of sliding around when clipped in (had a big rear end slide earlier today at Meerendal, thankfully I made it home in one piece 🙂 ).

Basically feel free to chuck in your 2 cents, or any advice as I'm quite confused with what route to take here... two sets of shoes is the very last resort (and something I don't really want to do).

Thanks in advance!

Edited April 30, 2023 by 440MTB

[robbybzgo]

My suggestion: try out (borrow) some flat pedals. I tried out flat pedals and really didn't enjoy them as I'm so used to clipping in. It really is a personal choice. Make sure the flat pedals have sufficient depth to the pins that supply the grip.

[ChrisF]

I enjoy my flat pedals.  Both for the single tracks, as well as longer rides.  Even did a 100 miler last weekend with my flats.

 

That said, the benefit of being able to pull on the upstroke can be a major advantage.  So from a performance point clipless makes a lot of sense.

 

 

I once bought a pair of Bontrager cycling shoes which were sold as suitable for both flats and clipless ... MISTAKE !!  Those soles are so hard the studs off the flats simply can not grip 😵  got rid of it after two rides.  So if you try out flats, do it justice and use proper shoes with it.

 

 

Question ... have you attended any skills training sessions ?  This combined with clipless seems to be the common wisdom ....

[dasilvarsa]

It will be difficult to transition to Flats.

It needs total commitment.

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

Not a big deal. I ride both and enjoy both. Biggest thing is making sure your fit is decent as flats should be run with the axle closer to the centre of your foot compared to clipless. I'd recommend getting flat specific shoes if you can, they are very grippy and it makes a big difference. Efficiency differences are overrated for most average riders. 

[440MTB]

Thanks for the comments thus far... I forgot to mention something... I've got some of those basic metal MTB flats which came on my Merida OneTwenty when I bought it, I'll put them on and go for a ride with my DC Crisis 2's (basic flat skating type shoes), and see how it feels.

@chris f Haven't attended any skills training yet, but that said (maybe due to having ridden motorcycles as a youngster, as well as the odd dirt bike session here and there), being able to easily have your foot out if you start sliding, vs. being clipped in is a somewhat mental block/scary though, so I reckon you're spot on with the "wisdom" coming from skills sessions, but heck, these days I can buy pedals and flats, and keep my clipless stuff for the price of 1 session. Hahaha. Worth it I guess, but I'll first see how far down this rabbit hole I want to go. Lol

Edited April 30, 2023 by 440MTB

[dasilvarsa]

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/za/original-mtb-sport-platform-pedals-9-16-axle

[cadenceblur]

I reckon with good pedaling technique there isn’t that much loss in terms of efficiency 

[Theunissa]

I cannot comment on cleats. But I can on flats have 5.3k on my flats. I bought decentish  flat pedals in 2017. First the. Used tekkies now I use safety boots. Best grip leather steel toes for when yy hit rocks and also the boots give me ankle support. ( u do fee the weight in tie beginning, but get used to it) I have seen people fall hard because they couldn't or unclipped a sec to late. I like flats because I can get of when the bike loses balance and I'm going down and I can also put my foot out when I I turn to fast and it wants to slide. I can change from ball of my foot to arch. I feel more planted this way. Amd yes your foot can slip of if you got bad grip ( never had that with the Boots with different decent grip on sole.) can't comment on cycling version flats. They to skinny for my hobbit feet

[Theunissa]

Something I want to add. The standard pedals are not nice. Get wide ones. As wide as the shoe you have  atleast

[cadenceblur]

Flat pedals are best paired with flat pedal shoes, great that you have had good service from your boots though, how far do you ride though? 
The OP mentioned that he does some long rides. 

[MTBRIDER1234]

I ride flats, and like them, but I will say that if you are trying to go fast, they are worse in pretty much every respect. The pro DH guys ride clipped in, and so do the pro xc guys. so you won't be as fast on flats as you would be clipped in, both up and down.

But flats punish you for bad technique, take a bad line choice and you will pay for it far more than you would in cleats. Also I ride for fun and like to do stupid stuff, so flats give me a quick route out when the **** hits the fan.

Additionally, when running flats you need proper pedals and proper shoes. Not tekkies or skate shoes. Riding shoes ain't cheap, so do budget that in. Also I run pedals with scary pins of about 4mm, and they give me amazing traction. But when I do on the rare occasion slip a pedal, I know about it - last time I slipped a pedal, the pin went  a few mm deep into my shin bone and took a little bit out. 

Flats are more confidence inspiring, cleats are more efficient. (for 99% of people)

[Theunissa]

4 minutes ago, cadenceblur said:

Flat pedals are best paired with flat pedal shoes, great that you have had good service from your boots though, how far do you ride though? 
The OP mentioned that he does some long rides. 

Longest is 5 hours. Proper safety boots are better than sports shoes. Except for weight.i wear them every day. And walk 10-15k steps average. And they don't hurt. I'm not talking about the cheap china ones. Bova makes good ones about 900-1000. And if your feet are to wide for these super narrow shoes you get these days. I would take a comfortable boot over it any day. A hear people complaining everywhere incl on bile hub about hot foot etc. I used to get that with cycling specific shoes and since I started using my boots no issues. So from personal experience it works better for me. 

[440MTB]

@Theunissa Thanks for the insight, but I reckon I'll get some proper flats if I do go that route, the boots sound interesting, glad it works for you man, and makes sense (coming from a motorcycle background - I used to wear my Alpinestars SMX6 boots even when just going to the nearest shops. Rather safe, and all that... ).

 

As for the pedals, I'll definitely get proper flats as I only mentioned the basic stuff and my DCs as I have them laying around, and it would be a good test to see if I can live without my clipless pedals and shoes.

[Theunissa]

1 minute ago, 440MTB said:

@Theunissa Thanks for the insight, but I reckon I'll get some proper flats if I do go that route, the boots sound interesting, glad it works for you man, and makes sense (coming from a motorcycle background - I used to wear my Alpinestars SMX6 boots even when just going to the nearest shops. Rather safe, and all that... ).

 

As for the pedals, I'll definitely get proper flats as I only mentioned the basic stuff and my DCs as I have them laying around, and it would be a good test to see if I can live without my clipless pedals and shoes.

Specialized has nice flat shoes. But they just to narrow for me. They habe one that can be used as flat and clipless. 

[Theunissa]

4 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

I ride flats, and like them, but I will say that if you are trying to go fast, they are worse in pretty much every respect. The pro DH guys ride clipped in, and so do the pro xc guys. so you won't be as fast on flats as you would be clipped in, both up and down.

But flats punish you for bad technique, take a bad line choice and you will pay for it far more than you would in cleats. Also I ride for fun and like to do stupid stuff, so flats give me a quick route out when the **** hits the fan.

Additionally, when running flats you need proper pedals and proper shoes. Not tekkies or skate shoes. Riding shoes ain't cheap, so do budget that in. Also I run pedals with scary pins of about 4mm, and they give me amazing traction. But when I do on the rare occasion slip a pedal, I know about it - last time I slipped a pedal, the pin went  a few mm deep into my shin bone and took a little bit out. 

Flats are more confidence inspiring, cleats are more efficient. (for 99% of people)

The  of question is how much better efficient. 10% 20% 30%. I don't really think efficency is really that important if you are not top20.