Clipless vs Flats Advice

[Pandatron]

2 hours ago, peepeekaitjie said:

aren't you the guy who broke his ankle in his driveway? 

Hello Police, I'd like to report a murder.

[Robbie Stewart]

3 hours ago, peepeekaitjie said:

aren't you the guy who broke his ankle in his driveway? 

while doing a manual, yes 

[peepeekaitjie]

6 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

while doing a manual, yes 

Wheelie sounds more dangerous 

[Robbie Stewart]

Just now, peepeekaitjie said:

Wheelie sounds more dangerous 

manual, on tar, wearing your very new 2FO's and no helmet. Lifting the front wheel to near vertical and stepping off to stop from flipping back and cracking the melon. 

the 2FO grips like it's getting paid and won't let go. 

Ankle says POP!

[V18]

My take on flats vs clipped in.

Flats for everyday commute and all riding done on my trail full sus bike. I wear Adidas/fiveten shoes on dmr vaults. But have used crank bros stamp/dmr v12/e13 etc with good results. 

I have clipless setup (lake shoes) and would only ride them on hardtails/gravel/road or super short travel fs bikes as they tend to bounce my feet around a bit more when unweighting my bike over choppy stuff. I know people like DdT ride ultra rough trails on hardtails, but he's quite a bit lighter than me and I fear I'll smash my rear wheel in no time with the heels down hulk smash approach.

In terms of efficacy. Legs are designed to push. Knees are definitely not designed to pull. Tiring out your stabilisers may result in abnormal knee dynamics in the weekend warrior. I'm sure the pro roadies have popliteus muscles the size of the average Joe's medial gastrocnemius. I can crank out 50 extra watts if I actively push-pull on the IDT for a few minutes. But from practical experience in riding both flats and clipped in on the smart trainer, there is zero difference. 

[440MTB]

Gents, firstly, many thanks for all the awesome replies, really appreciate it!

So I've taken the plunge, got myself some Raceface Chesters and a VERY nice set of Five Ten Freerider Pros (2nd hand here on BH).

The pedals arrived first this morning, I fitted them and took a quick cruise around the block with my DC Crisis 2s (Skating shoes with decent grip), it felt okay and I scratched up my calf and drew my first bit of blood. Hahahaha.

The Five Tens arrived later the afternoon, and MAN OH MAN! What a difference in stiffness and grip on the pins, makes a huge difference compared to the softer rubber of the DCs.

I went for a 25km ride to Bloemendal, blasted down Lombards, rode up again, then down Flow, did some of the table tops right at the bottom in the pit of doom, and I was thoroughly impressed with the grip, confidence, and overall feeling of the flats and shoes!

I still pushed quite hard on the ride home (was getting dark) and didn't really notice much difference in power, albeit, I did sometimes lift my foot on the upstroke (used to pull a bit on climbs with my SPD clipless setup - Scott Boa Comps and Shimano SPD pedals), definitely a bit of an efficiency loss, but overall, didn't bother me much. 😅

Overall, I feel really good about the flats and shoes, I'm going to Contermanskloof on Sunday to try some of the trails there again and see how it goes.

I was actually impressed how quickly I got used to bunnyhopping with the flats, as I've not ridden flats ever, but I did learn to bunnyhop as a kid on a BMX/cheap hardtail, so it feels quite natural, but it is quite a difference not being able to pull the bike up every time like when clipped in, but it was day one, I'll practice and get used to it, but overall, really happy! 😍

Edited May 5, 2023 by 440MTB

[Robbie Stewart]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:46 PM, 440MTB said:

Gents, firstly, many thanks for all the awesome replies, really appreciate it!

So I've taken the plunge, got myself some Raceface Chesters and a VERY nice set of Five Ten Freerider Pros (2nd hand here on BH).

The pedals arrived first this morning, I fitted them and took a quick cruise around the block with my DC Crisis 2s (Skating shoes with decent grip), it felt okay and I scratched up my calf and drew my first bit of blood. Hahahaha.

The Five Tens arrived later the afternoon, and MAN OH MAN! What a difference in stiffness and grip on the pins, makes a huge difference compared to the softer rubber of the DCs.

I went for a 25km ride to Bloemendal, blasted down Lombards, rode up again, then down Flow, did some of the table tops right at the bottom in the pit of doom, and I was thoroughly impressed with the grip, confidence, and overall feeling of the flats and shoes!

I still pushed quite hard on the ride home (was getting dark) and didn't really notice much difference in power, albeit, I did sometimes lift my foot on the upstroke (used to pull a bit on climbs with my SPD clipless setup - Scott Boa Comps and Shimano SPD pedals), definitely a bit of an efficiency loss, but overall, didn't bother me much. 😅

Overall, I feel really good about the flats and shoes, I'm going to Contermanskloof on Sunday to try some of the trails there again and see how it goes.

I was actually impressed how quickly I got used to bunnyhopping with the flats, as I've not ridden flats ever, but I did learn to bunnyhop as a kid on a BMX/cheap hardtail, so it feels quite natural, but it is quite a difference not being able to pull the bike up every time like when clipped in, but it was day one, I'll practice and get used to it, but overall, really happy! 😍

Your going to have fun finding the sweet spot riding flats. Of how to lift the bike properly without pulling your legs but still using your feet. My tip is to drop your front foot heel and back foot toe to get bracketed in between the pedals to create a stability point from where you will find all sorts of new skills. Lekker, and enjoy the journey. Those shoes and pedals look great.

[dasilvarsa]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:46 PM, 440MTB said:

Gents, firstly, many thanks for all the awesome replies, really appreciate it!

So I've taken the plunge, got myself some Raceface Chesters and a VERY nice set of Five Ten Freerider Pros (2nd hand here on BH).

The pedals arrived first this morning, I fitted them and took a quick cruise around the block with my DC Crisis 2s (Skating shoes with decent grip), it felt okay and I scratched up my calf and drew my first bit of blood. Hahahaha.

The Five Tens arrived later the afternoon, and MAN OH MAN! What a difference in stiffness and grip on the pins, makes a huge difference compared to the softer rubber of the DCs.

I went for a 25km ride to Bloemendal, blasted down Lombards, rode up again, then down Flow, did some of the table tops right at the bottom in the pit of doom, and I was thoroughly impressed with the grip, confidence, and overall feeling of the flats and shoes!

I still pushed quite hard on the ride home (was getting dark) and didn't really notice much difference in power, albeit, I did sometimes lift my foot on the upstroke (used to pull a bit on climbs with my SPD clipless setup - Scott Boa Comps and Shimano SPD pedals), definitely a bit of an efficiency loss, but overall, didn't bother me much. 😅

Overall, I feel really good about the flats and shoes, I'm going to Contermanskloof on Sunday to try some of the trails there again and see how it goes.

I was actually impressed how quickly I got used to bunnyhopping with the flats, as I've not ridden flats ever, but I did learn to bunnyhop as a kid on a BMX/cheap hardtail, so it feels quite natural, but it is quite a difference not being able to pull the bike up every time like when clipped in, but it was day one, I'll practice and get used to it, but overall, really happy! 😍

It's not the Shoes it's the Bike.

I Ride a 120 AsWell

[440MTB]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:40 AM, Robbie Stewart said:

Your going to have fun finding the sweet spot riding flats. Of how to lift the bike properly without pulling your legs but still using your feet. My tip is to drop your front foot heel and back foot toe to get bracketed in between the pedals to create a stability point from where you will find all sorts of new skills. Lekker, and enjoy the journey. Those shoes and pedals look great.

I almost died yesterday at Contermans kloof, a mate of mine (with a lot more skill and bike [Pyga Hyrax]) took me down some black trails, the first section was fine, but then on "The kloof" rock garden, the sun was kind of behind the trees (late afternoon) so it cast shadows on the rock garden... it was super bouncy and steep, so my feet bounced off the pedals at one stage, but thankfully I managed to stop without going OTB or shredding my shins (just a bit of a whack on the shin, little bit of blood and a big old bump).

Only after I went flying down there, he told me: "I told you to watch me go down first, and then follow after me", I never heard him and just followed him down. Hahahaha.

He also explained to me exactly what you said w.r.t. dropping the front heel and back foot toe, instead of the neutral stance I'm used to being clipped in. So definitely some bad habits to get rid of, and new habits/skills to focus on.

I also need to focus on my jumping a bit more, my feet come off the pedals a bit too, but only on "poppy" jumps, when I bunny hop curbs, etc, it seems to be fine, so probably just lost practice and technique adjustments required.

Thanks for the compliment! 😃 Loving the shoes and pedals thus far, but the right pedal has its first battle scars now after the above mentioned near death experience. Hahaha

On 5/7/2023 at 1:07 PM, dasilvarsa said:

It's not the Shoes it's the Bike.

I Ride a 120 AsWell

Hahahaha! I am thoroughly enjoying the OneTwenty man, and I don't feel so scared to thrash it a bit as I did with the carbon frame on my Spark 910, was always worried about smacking rocks or crashing with that bike. It also has carbon cranks, so another thing to worry about (albeit I did install crank boots when I got the bike).

I also made some changes with the tyres... I replaced the 2.35 Forekaster that was on the rear with the 2.4 Ardent that was on the front, and installed a used 2.4 Minion DHR II (gifted by my mate) on the front.

Edited May 8, 2023 by 440MTB

[Jako De Wet]

Just note that the heel down/toe down is only for when you're in the air. Definitely both heels down when going through the bumpy stuff. 
Glad you're having fun!

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, 440MTB said:

I almost died yesterday at Contermans kloof, a mate of mine (with a lot more skill and bike [Pyga Hyrax])...

I know the feeling. Finding your happy place on flats is a challenge. Dial back on the eagerness until you're properly comfortable before you go full-send.

On Saturday I had a moment coming down Jonkers DH after sending the rock step-down. I was blasting full tilt into the doubles after the jump and then as I turned into the right berm I grabbed a fistful of front brake while going Mach 1.5 for some as yet inexplicable reason. . . My brand new Maxxis Assegai gripped and nearly chucked me headfirst into the berm as well. I got a proper skrik and luckily I made it to the end in one piece. 

[Pieter1]

On 5/4/2023 at 6:16 PM, MORNE said:

The state of my shins will give Freddy Kruger wet dreams…

My last strike resulted in 12 stiches haha

Hahaha! Genade dude that must have been rough! My wife would sell my bike I swear. She often looks at my legs and just shakes her head...

[mazambaan]

6 hours ago, Pieter1 said:

Hahaha! Genade dude that must have been rough! My wife would sell my bike I swear. She often looks at my legs and just shakes her head...

Those flat pedals are the devil's work on shins. I had a shin scrape that refused to heal - eventually to a plastic surgeon, then got infected so antibiotic, still slow to heal so a very unpleasant few weeks visiting a wound clinic and it was touch and go that vacuum therapy would be needed. I am a ballie though but blood circulation to the minimal meat on the shin can be poor.  A friend had a similar experience that ended up with him in hospital for quite a while.

I have reverted to plastic flat pedals, I kid you not but I do concentrate on weighting the pedals, heel down. Recent note; do not let your weight be on your toes on the pedal when jumping; cost one Eli Tomac a ruptured Achilles and an SX championship, maybe career ending.

[dave303e]

1 hour ago, mazambaan said:

Those flat pedals are the devil's work on shins. I had a shin scrape that refused to heal - eventually to a plastic surgeon, then got infected so antibiotic, still slow to heal so a very unpleasant few weeks visiting a wound clinic and it was touch and go that vacuum therapy would be needed. I am a ballie though but blood circulation to the minimal meat on the shin can be poor.  A friend had a similar experience that ended up with him in hospital for quite a while.

I have reverted to plastic flat pedals, I kid you not but I do concentrate on weighting the pedals, heel down. Recent note; do not let your weight be on your toes on the pedal when jumping; cost one Eli Tomac a ruptured Achilles and an SX championship, maybe career ending.

He did that in alpinestar tech 10's. If you simulated such an impact on a mtb you would likely blow out your knee, ankle and Achilles...

I do however wonder if there was not a fluoroquinolone involved there, with the stresses of needing to race week after week if he didn't try squash the flu quick and boom...

[Meezo]

7 hours ago, Pieter1 said:

Hahaha! Genade dude that must have been rough! My wife would sell my bike I swear. She often looks at my legs and just shakes her head...

its not that leg(s) she's looking at with disappointment

[Pieter1]

16 minutes ago, Meezo said:

its not that leg(s) she's looking at with disappointment

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Jou vuilgoed!