Why you are not welcome in the cradle

[Eldron]

 

stuff

 

 

 

Edit - nah I've said my piece - I'm out...

 

 

Eldron2009-11-10 05:27:45

[Kranswurm]

I'm going to enter into a diatribe. You are preoccupied' date=' even obsessed with 'invading' cyclists. My father in-law will not tolerate having his life put in danger. As matter of fact, I don't think anyone would. Some riders do ride irresponsibly and they do ride in the middle of the road at times and I cannot excuse that, but simply overtake them if you want to pass. Just like any other vehicle on the road. In my father in-laws case he was going down the Muldersdrift hill at 65km/h. His first concern is his personal safety. The oncoming right lane was clear for you to pass, so what was the problem? I'm all for a solution but it needs to work both ways.[/quote']

If you and your father in law were so concerned about his safety tell him to keep left and maybe slow down if he cant control his bike adequately at that speed.Probably a danger to himself.

[Spinnekop]

 

stuff

 

 

 

Edit - nah I've said my piece - I'm out...

 

 

 

Eldron.

 

I have read your post before your edit.  And I agree.  The way his has gone about it is perfect.  No problem there. 

 

Show people the problem so that they can understand.  I agree with that.  The guys are not obeying the law, riding single file.  No respect.  Makes me angry to see just like the taxi that drove over the red light this morning.  BAD PEOPLE!! 

 

My point is......why do the effort?  Why not just live and let live?  Why policeman?  Why not add a little patients to your life and move on? 

 

We rode in Mauritius daily.  They have limited motorways.  They are relaxed people.  They will wait until the coast is clear, indicate, hoot, pass you in a civilized manor all the while thinking what is for dinner tonight.

South Africans can learn a lot from them!  (Guess they have better weed there)

 

Me....personally. 

I have to sit in traffic every day.  Standing still on the N1 is no big deal.  It is a given. 

Should riding at 40km/h in the Cradle be my Sunday "burden" (it's a given), that would be no problem to me too. 

 

If I can spend 3 hours in traffic behind cars during the week, 18 minutes is not going to kill me.....unless I work myself up to a frenzy enough to go dig up the camera or even hit a cyclist, killing my wife sitting next to me when that crank arm comes through the windscreen. 

 

18 minutes.....not worth the effort.  IMO

Spinnekop2009-11-10 05:46:08

[Eldron]

 

stuff

 

 

 

Edit - nah I've said my piece - I'm out...

 

 

 

Eldron.

 

I have read your post before your edit.  And I agree.  The way his has gone about it is perfect.  No problem there. 

 

Show people the problem so that they can understand.  I agree with that.  The guys are not obeying the law' date=' riding single file.  Not curtious.  Makes me angry to see just like the taxi that drove over the read light this morning.  BAD PEOPLE!! 

 

My point is......why do the effort?  Why not just live and let live?  Why policeman?  Why not add a little patients to your life and move on? 

 

We rode in Mauritius dayly.  They have limited motorways.  They are relaxed, layed back people.  They will wait untill the coast is clear, indicate, hoot, pass you in a civilized manor all the while thinking what is for dinner tonight.

South Africans can learn a lot from them!  (Guess they have better weed there)

 

Me....personally. 

I have to sit in traffic every day.  Standing still on the N1 is no big deal.  It is a given. 

Should riding at 40km/h in the Cradle be my Sunday "burden" (it's a given), that would be no problem to me too. 

 

If I can spend 3 hours in traffic behind cars during the week, 18 minutes is not going to kill me.....unless I work myself up to a frenzy enough to go dig up the camera or even hit a cyclist, killing my wife sitting next to me when that crank arm comes through the windscreen. 

 

18 minutes.....not worth the effort.  IMO

[/quote']

 

I try to live my life by the maxim "bad people flourish when good people do nothing" and it can be roughly used in this instance.

 

If, like you say, patience is the answer then we will all be trundling along at 20kph because there are slow riders in the middle of the road. I find that unacceptable. It's the equivalent of saying taxis are always going to jump red lights so we should treat all robots as 4 way stops and come to a complete stop at green lights before proceeding. Unacceptable.

 

South Africa will NEVER be like Mauritius as long as we "forgive" bad riding OR bad driving by sweeping it under the carpet.

 

On the flip side - there will always be times when cyclists become an obstruction (avoiding potholes/broken road borders on the shoulder, road too narrow to allow cars past riders, riders over taking other riders etc) - in these instances cradle drivers should be patient.

 

As in most things the middle ground always seems to be the answer - some thinking on the cyclist's part - some patience on the driver's part.

 

Personally I always give right of way to something that can kill me (like a car) so I tend to err on the side of the car - you're less likely to be killed riding on the left of the road than in the middle of it.

 

Damn - I'm back in this debate

 

 

[Eldron]

 

 

 

My point is......why do the effort?  Why not just live and let live?  Why policeman?  Why not add a little patients to your life and move on? 

 

 

On a more philisophical note - your are quite right - in a perfect world where everybody cared about everyone we wouldn't need laws...BUT when large groups of people live in close proximity the laws keep everyone on the same page (drive on the left, stop at robots, killing is bad etc.). Can you imagine what chaos would ensue if we adopted the "do whatever you like - we'll just be more patient" attitude?

 

Sadly we need laws for 100% of the people because 5% of the people disregard them.

 

Going off on a tangient - I blame marketing. Marketing teaches us to buy a better car than our neighbour, earn more money than our friends and that the winner takes all. Rampent consumerism that results in "f*ck you mate - I'm ok" menality.

 

I'm a believer in quality of life not quantity of life.

 

Ironically my long winded drivel is making a strong case for me to agree with your "patience is the answer" theory!

[Edge_Design]

Out of interest CR, when you pulled over at the "request" of the cyclist, was it so you could apologise for hooting and politely explain the difficulties the residents are having or because you couldn't resist the manliness of a confrontation? I hate to say it, but that makes you just as bad as the person you are insulting publically on here (you haven't posted a picture of yourself all red in the face yet?!)... you are annoyed at being held up, yet you have the time to stop for a fight?

 

I understand the frustration, but I don't believe you are any better than anyone else on here... it probably took you longer to make that video, make screenshots, load it on here and then watch this forum than the entire time you have been held up behind cyclists in your lifetime. Think of the time you have spent discussing this issue with ppl, the calls, the letters, the meetings etc. Surely this is more inconvenient than an extra 5 minutes on your way to pick 'n pay on a saturday morning (where you get stuck behind bad trolley drivers no doubt and waste another 10 minutes you could be spending on The Hub!)

 

I also get irritated getting stuck behind cyclists on the road (come to cape town in march!), I rant and swear, hoot once or twice, then drive around them and forget about it by the next corner... this all just seems excessive.

shaun2312009-11-10 06:14:45

[Slave]

Spiinekop, FWIW dude, you are advocating that we just chill and allow people to do as they please.

 

That's the reason why traffic and crime and all sortsof things are out of control.

 

Like letting the taxi push in from the emergency lane and further delaying everyone else in the traffic.

 

Laws are put in place mainly to prevent the degeneration of society onto the state of anarchy it is currently in.

 

Leaving the cyclists be is just going to firther agravate the situation. The law applies to us all and we should all obey it, mainly for our own personal safety.

 

Very simple. Like you said, wrong is wrong and it aggravates me no end when people zip down the emergency lane (illegal) and then force their way into the traffic. It sucks man. It makes me late for meetings and appointments. It makes you late for meetings and appointments.

 

It screws up anybody's day.

 

Same junk with cyclists. Why should society at large, just sit back and ay, well let's all just chill because they are there and they aren't going to go away.

 

NO. We all need to have respect for the rule of law and we all need to have mutual respect and consideration for each other. other people also have stuff to do and places to go. So why the h3ll should they have to rearrange their lives to wait for us to finish cycling.

 

In my opinion, it's hugely inconsiderate to even suggest it.

 

 

[Slowbee]

will cradle cyclist at least go to a face to face meeting with cradle resident to try and make a difference for either the residents or cyclists ?

[Spinnekop]

 

I try to live my life by the maxim "bad people flourish when good people do nothing" and it can be roughly used in this instance.

 

Very true.  For that I have the utmost respect!  And I think that is what Cradleresident's idea is here.

 

 

 

If' date=' like you say, patience is the answer then we will all be trundling along at 20kph because there are slow riders in the middle of the road. I find that unacceptable. [/quote']

 

Unacceptable?  Maybe.  Why not be patient.  Hoot once.  Let them align and pass and be on your merry way.  No BP issues.  No signs.  Nothing.

 

If after you cannot pass them for 5km, THEN start moving them down.  *this is a sick joke....don't take it personally*

 

 

It's the equivalent of saying taxis are always going to jump red lights so we should treat all robots as 4 way stops and come to a complete stop at green lights before proceeding. Unacceptable.

 

You don't stop or slow down at green lights??????????  DUDE......no.

 

The point is.....it comes with the TERRITORY!!!  In the Cradle' date=' you have social groups riding in bunches.  Learn to live with it and you might live longer.........

 

You KNOW you have to drive carefully in a crowded home area......kids might run after their ball or a dog.....they are not allowed to do it but you as a driver have a certain respect for live....well....for a small child.....

 

Cyclists are the rats of the vehicle world.....they are seen as expendible.....no right to live or use the roads.....

I would like the change that by asking motorists to GIVE me my allocated 1.5m RIGHT of the yellow lane....the day THAT happens, I would start respecting drivers.  Until then it is war...........

 

 

On the flip side - there will always be times when cyclists become an obstruction (avoiding potholes/broken road borders on the shoulder, road too narrow to allow cars past riders, riders over taking other riders etc) - in these instances cradle drivers should be patient.

 

Some how I don't think this will be the case if you have a look at the photos....

 

 

 

As in most things the middle ground always seems to be the answer - some thinking on the cyclist's part - some patience on the driver's part.

 

That is where it has to happen.....but like I said......Ill informed motorist will not give me my rightful 1.5m.....and until "they" stop to threaten my life every second I am on the road' date=' I will continue to ride in a way that I feel safe......in a bunch maybe?

 

Personally I always give right of way to something that can kill me (like a car) so I tend to err on the side of the car - you're less likely to be killed riding on the left of the road than in the middle of it.

 

Damn - I'm back in this debate

 

 

Welcome back.....debate is good......

[Spinnekop]

 

In my opinion' date=' it's hugely inconsiderate to even suggest it.

 

 

[/quote']

 

 

 

So now "I" have caused you to be 18 minutes late for a meeting.  Inconsiderate of me.  Bad boy.  On a Sunday.  oi.

 

You will die of a heart attack at age 40 and I will die at 80.  Gives me double the lifespan being chilled. 

 

Is it right?  No.  Will you die at 40 being high strung.  Yes.  Is it worth it?   naaahhhhh.....

 

Smile and wave........ 

[IanC]

I feel this problem is due to the following.

Common Courtousy

and

Respect.

If you don't give that you can't expect te get some.

 

[Slave]

Spider Dude,

I am past 40 already so being highly strung I guess I am in my bonus years.  I can die a happy chappy is I can crack my planned 3hr WFC on Sunday. Then hang up my bike and go and play with the kids my own age. Bowls is a lot less stressful than cycling although it has a high mortality rate.  

 

What I was saying, and here I agree with Eldron, is that in a perfect world, the live and let live philosophy is cool. In the real world though, it just doesn't work.

 

There is more than enough anarchy in SA as it is. leaving things be is just going to allow it to get worse.

 

Like our fellow hubber Eldron, I have stated my case and probably overstayed my welcome.

 

I am outa here. I might just upset some okes and there fathers in law and get m03red for it.

 

Have fun children. Play nice.

 

If I can find that thing I had on why not to "flip the bird at women in traffic" I will post it as a rather clever reason why we should not use this modern digital language under any circumstances.

 

In a two horse race agains steel, we should be the more patient of the road users for very obvious reasons. And if the motorist do take a chill pill as you suggest, more cyclists will abuse their good naturedness and be even more toopid on the road.

 

'K, I'm all done now.

[Eldron]

 

Loads of stuff!

 

 

Welcome back.....debate is good......

 

I'm rather flexible on the 1.5m thing. I'm happy for cars to pass my as close as 50cm IF they're doing 60kph - the faster they go the further away they should be.

 

I also live my life my the maxim (cool word huh?) of "practinoid" - which is an ingenius mix of practical and paranoid. As cyclists we need to be somewhere between pratical and paranoid. I employ the same maxim (there's that word again!) - I check both ways before I go through a green light. Same at 4 way stops. Thats about where I draw the line. I refuse to submit to the law breakers though - silly things like not letting "turning lane short cutters" push in front of me.

 

Somehow through all of this I manage to stay chilled. Hell - I live on a plot with rabbits, chickens and birds. If I got any more laid back I'd fall over.

 

This thread gives a fair reflection of society - most people are concerned that cyclists are not behaving that well in the cradle but the "check like if you wanna take my rights away and intimidate me with your car I'll like pull you out and moer you ekse" minority exists.

 

 

[obree]

I'm gonna get all my Harley mates to ride that route on their harleys this sunday, take up the whole road, reving their hogs. Tattoos and rings everywhere!! Not one single motorist will say a word !! The will just calmly drive behind them !!!

[Jackes]

I think we need some traffic officials to go have some bagels and coffee on that route to screw up whoever brakes the law...

[Kranswurm]

I'm gonna get all my Harley mates to ride that route on their harleys this sunday' date=' take up the whole road, reving their hogs. Tattoos and rings everywhere!! Not one single motorist will say a word !! The will just calmly drive behind them !!![/quote']

Says who !

Bunch of old farts wearing a Hawain shirt and have never got over their midlife crisis.